7 ms·

Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

33 points by 71a54xd 4y ago

I'm an eng with three years of backend experience (1yr faang, 2.5yrs growth stage startup) and one year being a technical product manager / product eng. Startup I was working for laid off 75% of the eng team and half the product team (including me, since I had the least exp and was the most recent addition). Been about six weeks, around 40 applications that only converted to three interviews. Fortunately I have savings, but insurance is expensive and the outlook doesn't seem good. Anyone else struggling without a solid "senior" track record / solid resume? Consulting for a friend's startup to keep the lights on, but future seems pretty bleak especially with GPT4.

VagueMag 4y ago
Even with a senior resume I have found the pipeline extremely difficult to make it through as well. Initial phone screens used to be a formality, and I almost always passed the initial coding interviews, but not anymore. Will almost certainly have to accept a significant cut to my base salary. Was lucky enough to be laid off by a Globotech type so got a decent severance with six months of COBRA but it's rough. Always thought they'd be a little scared to proletarianize the people who know how all the tech infra works but maybe I was wrong!
TechBro8615 4y ago
You'll be fine. Hopefully you saved some of that FAANG money because it might take a while, but if you target recently funded startups and reach out directly, you will get a job quickly.
ll_mama 4y ago
It's definitely not ChatGPT or AI (or at least not just that), it's remote work as well. I'm seeing a lot of companies hiring worldwide remote talent at a huge discount. This time its different from the outsourcing we have seen in the past. Because you now have experienced remote US and EU developers living somewhere where their cost of living allows them to be very competitive on rates and salary. An US developer living in Asia, can charge 50-100$ per hour, which comparatively to the US, would be 100$+-500$ per hour. And that is happening a lot now. I have lowered my salary expectations, and am doing quite well while consulting now.
- andy800 4y ago
  ll_mama, do you mind sharing where and how you are connecting with companies and arranging your contracting gigs? Which languages, specialties and/or industries are you seeing demand? Thanks very much.
  - ll_mama 4y ago
    I run some blogs with SEO on particular niches which I frequently update and rank fairly high for particular framework issues. I don't want to get into details, but companies google these issues, find my posts, fail at solving them with the steps which are very clearly laid out by me, and then reach out to me to see if I am available to fix their particular issue. That is about 30% of the clients that I get. The other 70% are past employers or clients and references through past clients and former colleagues.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.
  - potta_coffee 4y ago
    IDK about that. I work for a massive company with employees around the world. We need people in all time zones. We need people who can do work in specific regions and markets. We need people who can communicate in English and other languages and understand cultural subtleties. Also have experience with outsourcing in several other companies and have seen some terrible results.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - ll_mama 4y ago
      I think we are too late for any sort of intervention here. It's not like the 0.1% hasn't been trying to access the US job market for the past decade(s) for remote work. It was bound to happen, we just entered a phase of acceleration. Most people with cushy well paying jobs, who are very pro WFH, just never did the back of the envelope calculation when promoting WFH. And well WFH (or just lets call it "remote work") as a default, is definitely here to stay. People arbitraging their income abroad (US worker, remotely working and spending in Asia, South America, etc.), is also here to stay and becoming increasingly more common while salaries are falling (60k in Asia is like 100-200k in the US). And companies capitalizing on their benefits is also here to stay (low cost employees who can be fired at whim, for a fraction of the cost of local workers with the same skills).
luxuryballs 4y ago
something that I've noticed which wasn't happening 5 years ago is the insane number of people clearly from India flooding me with emails/phones and rather rude (or at least socially inept) SMS messages, and almost always asking me for SSN digits, DOB, or photos of ID to get an interview (as if) did get one interview via one of these fellows without such nonsense but then they wanted to record the video interview to show the client, I couldn't just interview with the client directly? so I got cold feet and tapped out, just felt off... BUT then I went ahead with a similar one a month later, still didn't feel super right, but whatever, at least it seemed like it was a direct hire this time, guy was nice and seemed legit, got the impression they wanted me for customer facing but def. for mentoring/managing offshore newb team, seemed like the entire company was Indian not worried about GPT, you may be able to use it to make you more productive though
the_only_law 4y ago
~5YoE. I was getting absolutely nothing for 4 months. No interviews and by mid December recruiters had dried up completely. Then I applied to a non-remote job the other night, while not paying attention and the company ends up reaching out for an interview the next day. I’m guessing I’d see a lot more engagement if I applied to more on-site jobs. Honestly the pay seems reasonable and the work doesn’t seem all that bad, but I really don’t want to move. It would basically mean death for my medium and long term plans/goals. Moving is also expensive and I’d be moving right back to a state I left several years ago.
kqr2 4y ago
Do you have links to Part 1 and Part 2 for reference?
gumballindie 4y ago
> future seems pretty bleak especially with GPT4. huh?
kypro 4y ago
What are you applying for? Are you trying to get a FAANG salary or just a job? Not judging, just wondering.

33 points by 71a54xd 4y ago

VagueMag 4y ago

Even with a senior resume I have found the pipeline extremely difficult to make it through as well. Initial phone screens used to be a formality, and I almost always passed the initial coding interviews, but not anymore. Will almost certainly have to accept a significant cut to my base salary. Was lucky enough to be laid off by a Globotech type so got a decent severance with six months of COBRA but it's rough. Always thought they'd be a little scared to proletarianize the people who know how all the tech infra works but maybe I was wrong!

TechBro8615 4y ago

You'll be fine. Hopefully you saved some of that FAANG money because it might take a while, but if you target recently funded startups and reach out directly, you will get a job quickly.

ll_mama 4y ago

It's definitely not ChatGPT or AI (or at least not just that), it's remote work as well. I'm seeing a lot of companies hiring worldwide remote talent at a huge discount. This time its different from the outsourcing we have seen in the past. Because you now have experienced remote US and EU developers living somewhere where their cost of living allows them to be very competitive on rates and salary. An US developer living in Asia, can charge 50-100$ per hour, which comparatively to the US, would be 100$+-500$ per hour. And that is happening a lot now. I have lowered my salary expectations, and am doing quite well while consulting now.

andy800 4y ago
ll_mama, do you mind sharing where and how you are connecting with companies and arranging your contracting gigs? Which languages, specialties and/or industries are you seeing demand? Thanks very much.
- ll_mama 4y ago
  I run some blogs with SEO on particular niches which I frequently update and rank fairly high for particular framework issues. I don't want to get into details, but companies google these issues, find my posts, fail at solving them with the steps which are very clearly laid out by me, and then reach out to me to see if I am available to fix their particular issue. That is about 30% of the clients that I get. The other 70% are past employers or clients and references through past clients and former colleagues.
senttoschool 4y ago
Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.
- potta_coffee 4y ago
  IDK about that. I work for a massive company with employees around the world. We need people in all time zones. We need people who can do work in specific regions and markets. We need people who can communicate in English and other languages and understand cultural subtleties. Also have experience with outsourcing in several other companies and have seen some terrible results.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ll_mama 4y ago
    I think we are too late for any sort of intervention here. It's not like the 0.1% hasn't been trying to access the US job market for the past decade(s) for remote work. It was bound to happen, we just entered a phase of acceleration. Most people with cushy well paying jobs, who are very pro WFH, just never did the back of the envelope calculation when promoting WFH. And well WFH (or just lets call it "remote work") as a default, is definitely here to stay. People arbitraging their income abroad (US worker, remotely working and spending in Asia, South America, etc.), is also here to stay and becoming increasingly more common while salaries are falling (60k in Asia is like 100-200k in the US). And companies capitalizing on their benefits is also here to stay (low cost employees who can be fired at whim, for a fraction of the cost of local workers with the same skills).

luxuryballs 4y ago

something that I've noticed which wasn't happening 5 years ago is the insane number of people clearly from India flooding me with emails/phones and rather rude (or at least socially inept) SMS messages, and almost always asking me for SSN digits, DOB, or photos of ID to get an interview (as if) did get one interview via one of these fellows without such nonsense but then they wanted to record the video interview to show the client, I couldn't just interview with the client directly? so I got cold feet and tapped out, just felt off... BUT then I went ahead with a similar one a month later, still didn't feel super right, but whatever, at least it seemed like it was a direct hire this time, guy was nice and seemed legit, got the impression they wanted me for customer facing but def. for mentoring/managing offshore newb team, seemed like the entire company was Indian not worried about GPT, you may be able to use it to make you more productive though

the_only_law 4y ago

~5YoE. I was getting absolutely nothing for 4 months. No interviews and by mid December recruiters had dried up completely. Then I applied to a non-remote job the other night, while not paying attention and the company ends up reaching out for an interview the next day. I’m guessing I’d see a lot more engagement if I applied to more on-site jobs. Honestly the pay seems reasonable and the work doesn’t seem all that bad, but I really don’t want to move. It would basically mean death for my medium and long term plans/goals. Moving is also expensive and I’d be moving right back to a state I left several years ago.

kqr2 4y ago

Do you have links to Part 1 and Part 2 for reference?

gumballindie 4y ago

> future seems pretty bleak especially with GPT4. huh?

kypro 4y ago

What are you applying for? Are you trying to get a FAANG salary or just a job? Not judging, just wondering.