6 ms·

This isn't entirely relevant, but I just want to say I am sick of our society's obsessive fascination with TV. It's solitary, sedentary, and passive. And then w

This isn't entirely relevant, but I just want to say I am sick of our society's obsessive fascination with TV. It's solitary, sedentary, and passive. And then we bitch and complain when the people cracking this whip make it more obnoxious, more expensive, and even less entertaining. Every show feels the same. The actors seem interchangeable. There's such a limited subset of permitted stories and things that can be said that the whole thing is boring in its homogenization. For most of us, informational programming (the last bastion of decent TV) is now largely replaced with preachy documentaries and voyeuristic glimpses into the lives of shitty, but dramatic people. Our entertainment is an ouroboros constantly digesting itself. Do something else! Play a videogame. Read a book. Go out and do something calming. Stop worshipping TV and movies and entertainment, and the talented but otherwise largely dumb and unqualified individuals playing all these derivative characters. And for god sakes stop sucking off the teat of these stupid subscription plans! The least we can do to fight pack is to pirate it. It truly is the boob tube.

cronix 4y ago
> Play a videogame > Stop worshipping TV and movies and entertainment
- pdntspa 4y ago
  Well, ok then, I guess anything entertaining is off limits. Is that the bad-faith argument you are making? Maybe I should have rephrased that to 'passive' entertainment.
  - water-your-self 4y ago
    The video game industry is quickly approaching the television industry. It has become simply an interactive tool for narrative delivery. Its simply a matter of time before the cancerous growth of capitalism gets its fingers into the media even deeper. Mark my words. Gaming is trending towards subscription service, and advertising will only find its way deeper into the way content is delivered until your sessions are 20 minutes long with 5 minutes for ads. Illegalize advertising.
    - pdntspa 4y ago
      It certainly feels that way. I am playing fewer and fewer new titles, and find that I keep returning to classics. Even 'indie' stuff is starting to feel very same-ish
      - mattgreenrocks 4y ago
        AAA is a bit dodgy these days. Lots of filler content and poor writing. Indies have a wider variance of quality but there’s usually a handful every year that are superb. Gaming definitely has been taking a back seat in my life the past few years though. Except Elden Ring. I loved my time there, bloated as the game is at times.
    - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
      >Gaming is trending towards subscription service One of the reasons I'm glad Stadia failed. I don't think that continuing costs can be avoided for online multiplayer where continuous support is necessary, but single-player offline games would likely get swept up in this tide as well. I also play way less games nowadays, and mostly for Switch, for which I prefer the physical cartridges. I'm honestly not even sure if disks are still sold for the newest Xbox or Playstation. Of course, PC/Steam vs console could keep things from completely sucking for consumers. Hopefully?
  - FormerBandmate 4y ago
    How is a video game superior to TV? Storylines on prestige TV shows blow most videogames out of the water
    - pdntspa 4y ago
      Idunno, beating Cyberpunk 2077 elicited more of an emotional reaction from me than anything TV or movies has done. Baldur's Gate, Anachronox, Oblivion, hell even the old final fantasy games had so much more going for them story-wise than pretty much anything Hollywood could come up with save for its most longest-running series.
      - ask_b123 4y ago
        I don't disagree with the value of videogames, but I'm sure that my grandma could say the same about (some of?) her soap operas/doramas.
        pdntspa 4y ago
        The apt comparison there would be books to soaps, I would think. I have a hard time seeing how anyone could defend soaps for their narrative depth.
      - brewdad 4y ago
        So it's a matter of personal preference rather than an inherent value in video games. Plenty of sports fans have emotional responses to their team's successes and failures. It's not my scene, but the popularity of the various -Cons suggests there is a huge crowd who feels similarly about certain TV shows and movies.
    - taeric 4y ago
      I will make no defense of video game stories... but I find it laughable to hold up most "prestige" TV shows. How do the "prestige" video games hold up against most TV shows? :D Putting charity to the claim, since you do have to interact with games, I could see how the thought could be that they are more mentally stimulating. Gambling, of course, gives the lie to that claim. Addictive does not mean productive, and all of that. That said, why do so many folks obsess over productivity?
  - cronix 4y ago
    > I guess anything entertaining is off limits I was just using your own words to show you the 2 quoted statements you made are in direct opposition to each other. They are all entertainment. That's all.
    - pdntspa 4y ago
      Of course, and we all write extremely plainly and without context.
  - tzs 4y ago
    Reading books was on your approved list. How is that not passive entertainment?
    - corbulo 4y ago
      Good books are far from passive. The worse a book is the more passive, but the reader always has to use reading comprehension to understand a book.
      - pdntspa 4y ago
        This is exactly why video has taken over reading. As soon as we had the tech for it it became mainstream because it is so brainless and flashy
        LocalH 4y ago
        The "brainlessness" of television is the fault of content producers, not the medium itself. Fred Rogers was probably one of the greatest users of television.
- sp332 4y ago
  Yeah. I mean, personally I like TV and movies, but video games are more interactive.
Aaronstotle 4y ago
I enjoy watching sports, I don't see how playing a videogame isn't another form of "worshipping entertainment". I also go to the gym and cycle outside, people are allowed to like things
- FormerBandmate 4y ago
  HN viewing videogames as more sophisticated or intellectual than TV is hilarious ngl. Reverse Boomerism
  - kevinventullo 4y ago
    I wouldn’t call video games more sophisticated or intellectual, but they do require you to use your brain in a way that is not strictly necessary for watching TV.
    - wutbrodo 4y ago
      Likewise, I don't have any illusions about medium fully defining the quality of content: eg reading 50 Shades of Grey isn't more rewarding or meaningful than watching The Wire. But apples-to-apples, watching video is the only common activity that feels maximally passive. I guess with the exception of listening to music? Not sure how this fits in
      - pdntspa 4y ago
        Music consumption itself is passive, but we frequently use it as a backdrop to do other things. Or we dance to it. I would like to think that the curation of playlists or mp3 libraries is considerably more involved than doing so with videos, on account of how limited in scope most songs/tracks are compared to video.
        scarface74 4y ago
        I’m sure if you drew a Venn diagram of “people who post to HN” and “people who dance”, the overlap wouldn’t be that large.
drivingmenuts 4y ago
I do some of those other things, but I also like some TV. I see no reason to apologize for that. Nor a reason to berate anyone else about their choice.
mixmastamyk 4y ago
Yes, often when we meet folks they wanna talk about their shows. And I kinda inwardly groan. Don't people have their own lives and do things any more? Maybe the rent is too high to do anything but work then crash in front of the TV these days?
- jamincan 4y ago
  It's often nice to talk about things that you share in common - weather, kids, and traditionally TV have often fill those roles. These are the normal ways to break the ice and get to know someone better before delving into other topics.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    Talking about our lives is generally more interesting than fictional ones. And if it’s not, take a hike or something. ;-)
minsc_and_boo 4y ago
>It's solitary, sedentary, and passive. People probably said the same about reading at several points in history. It's about how you use the technology, not the technology itself.
- HKH2 4y ago
  Reading requires that you use your imagination to make words make sense. It is not passive.
  - minsc_and_boo 4y ago
    And there are movies that make you use your imagination too. They're not that different.
- abudabi123 4y ago
  Reading a language you are in the process of learning is a form of puzzle assembly and takes the mind to places it would not have other wise.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And many of my coworkers whose second language is English said that they learned English by watching TV.
  - dwild 4y ago
    You can probably say something similar for any form of entertainment. You can always gain something from it (and that's excluding the benefit of doing something you enjoy).
mattgreenrocks 4y ago
And YouTube is fast turning into everything that TV is.
fortyseven 4y ago
Grandpa? You know the rules about using the family computer after 8pm. You're supposed to be sleeping. It's for your health. Come on: back to bed.
rhaway84773 4y ago
It’s not clear to me how playing video games is any better or worse than watching TV, other than it appears to be your preferred choice of entertainment. I’ll watch TV for an hour or so a day before calling it a night and it gives my spouse and me a lot to talk about, something to bond over, build a corpus of inside jokes, be able to talk to other people who might have watched a particular show, etc.
- HeavyFeather 4y ago
  > It’s not clear to me how playing video games is any better or worse than watching TV, other than it appears to be your preferred choice of entertainment. Having to interact with a world is by definition more active than solely watching. Since GP is judging sedentary and passive content ingestion, then yes, it’s much better. Especially when the TV content is mindless reality TV. (I’m not a gamer myself)
tracerbulletx 4y ago
There exists many TV shows that have artistic merit rivaling any book or film. The secret is just to actively select and seek out those specific works and not passively watch whatever random thing.
midoridensha 4y ago
You're single, right? >Do something else! Play a videogame. Read a book. Go out and do something calming. Stop worshipping TV and movies and entertainment Videogames and books are things you can't do with a partner. Going out is, but that takes a lot of time (travel time is a lot of overhead) and usually costs money unless you just go to the local park or something. Plus, it's restricted by the weather. >And for god sakes stop sucking off the teat of these stupid subscription plans! The least we can do to fight pack is to pirate it. Since this article is about YouTube TV, I'd like to plug the excellent Android TV app "SmartTubeNext". If you have a Google/Android TV, you can install this app (it's a bit of a pain since Google won't allow it in the Play store, so you need a downloader app to install it directly from GitHub) and watch YouTube videos without ads or sponsor segments.
- jmholla 4y ago
  > Since this article is about YouTube TV, I'd like to plug the excellent Android TV app "SmartTubeNext". If you have a Google/Android TV, you can install this app (it's a bit of a pain since Google won't allow it in the Play store, so you need a downloader app to install it directly from GitHub) and watch YouTube videos without ads or sponsor segments. NewPipe is available on F-Droid and offers the same thing.
- junon 4y ago
  > Videogames and books are things you can't do with a partner. There are, in fact, many games that are playable by more than one person.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I need to say this on HN, but since you've probably never dated any women, I have to inform you that almost no women actually want to play first-person shooter deathmatches with you.
    - junon 4y ago
      First, these sorts of comments are best left to Reddit, not here. Secondly, I'm gay and my boyfriend and I play tons of video games together. Third, even if I wasn't, I'd probably have the wherewithall to find a girlfriend that shares my interests or at least doesn't have a problem with them. Amazingly, humans (yes, including women, perhaps shocking to you) are complex and nuanced creatures that find enjoyment across a wide range of activities. Women can absolutely enjoy video games, just not when they're forced to play with sexist creeps like you.
andsoitis 4y ago
There are 4 million books published each year. 4 million!
scarface74 4y ago
Yes because no one on HN has a significant other that they spend time with watching TV. Or do you think after 12 years my wife and I should spend all of our time together looking lovingly into each others eyes talking about our relationship? So instead “playing video games” is much more stimulating? You realize the previous generation also said video games were ruining children? It’s also funny that your alternative was “playing video games” and not going outside for run, riding a bike, etc - anything that requires physical exertion or actually being around a group of other people.

cronix 4y ago

> Play a videogame > Stop worshipping TV and movies and entertainment

pdntspa 4y ago
Well, ok then, I guess anything entertaining is off limits. Is that the bad-faith argument you are making? Maybe I should have rephrased that to 'passive' entertainment.
- water-your-self 4y ago
  The video game industry is quickly approaching the television industry. It has become simply an interactive tool for narrative delivery. Its simply a matter of time before the cancerous growth of capitalism gets its fingers into the media even deeper. Mark my words. Gaming is trending towards subscription service, and advertising will only find its way deeper into the way content is delivered until your sessions are 20 minutes long with 5 minutes for ads. Illegalize advertising.
  - pdntspa 4y ago
    It certainly feels that way. I am playing fewer and fewer new titles, and find that I keep returning to classics. Even 'indie' stuff is starting to feel very same-ish
    - mattgreenrocks 4y ago
      AAA is a bit dodgy these days. Lots of filler content and poor writing. Indies have a wider variance of quality but there’s usually a handful every year that are superb. Gaming definitely has been taking a back seat in my life the past few years though. Except Elden Ring. I loved my time there, bloated as the game is at times.
  - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
    >Gaming is trending towards subscription service One of the reasons I'm glad Stadia failed. I don't think that continuing costs can be avoided for online multiplayer where continuous support is necessary, but single-player offline games would likely get swept up in this tide as well. I also play way less games nowadays, and mostly for Switch, for which I prefer the physical cartridges. I'm honestly not even sure if disks are still sold for the newest Xbox or Playstation. Of course, PC/Steam vs console could keep things from completely sucking for consumers. Hopefully?
- FormerBandmate 4y ago
  How is a video game superior to TV? Storylines on prestige TV shows blow most videogames out of the water
  - pdntspa 4y ago
    Idunno, beating Cyberpunk 2077 elicited more of an emotional reaction from me than anything TV or movies has done. Baldur's Gate, Anachronox, Oblivion, hell even the old final fantasy games had so much more going for them story-wise than pretty much anything Hollywood could come up with save for its most longest-running series.
    - ask_b123 4y ago
      I don't disagree with the value of videogames, but I'm sure that my grandma could say the same about (some of?) her soap operas/doramas.
      - pdntspa 4y ago
        The apt comparison there would be books to soaps, I would think. I have a hard time seeing how anyone could defend soaps for their narrative depth.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      So it's a matter of personal preference rather than an inherent value in video games. Plenty of sports fans have emotional responses to their team's successes and failures. It's not my scene, but the popularity of the various -Cons suggests there is a huge crowd who feels similarly about certain TV shows and movies.
  - taeric 4y ago
    I will make no defense of video game stories... but I find it laughable to hold up most "prestige" TV shows. How do the "prestige" video games hold up against most TV shows? :D Putting charity to the claim, since you do have to interact with games, I could see how the thought could be that they are more mentally stimulating. Gambling, of course, gives the lie to that claim. Addictive does not mean productive, and all of that. That said, why do so many folks obsess over productivity?
- cronix 4y ago
  > I guess anything entertaining is off limits I was just using your own words to show you the 2 quoted statements you made are in direct opposition to each other. They are all entertainment. That's all.
  - pdntspa 4y ago
    Of course, and we all write extremely plainly and without context.
- tzs 4y ago
  Reading books was on your approved list. How is that not passive entertainment?
  - corbulo 4y ago
    Good books are far from passive. The worse a book is the more passive, but the reader always has to use reading comprehension to understand a book.
    - pdntspa 4y ago
      This is exactly why video has taken over reading. As soon as we had the tech for it it became mainstream because it is so brainless and flashy
      - LocalH 4y ago
        The "brainlessness" of television is the fault of content producers, not the medium itself. Fred Rogers was probably one of the greatest users of television.
sp332 4y ago
Yeah. I mean, personally I like TV and movies, but video games are more interactive.

Aaronstotle 4y ago

I enjoy watching sports, I don't see how playing a videogame isn't another form of "worshipping entertainment". I also go to the gym and cycle outside, people are allowed to like things

FormerBandmate 4y ago
HN viewing videogames as more sophisticated or intellectual than TV is hilarious ngl. Reverse Boomerism
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  I wouldn’t call video games more sophisticated or intellectual, but they do require you to use your brain in a way that is not strictly necessary for watching TV.
  - wutbrodo 4y ago
    Likewise, I don't have any illusions about medium fully defining the quality of content: eg reading 50 Shades of Grey isn't more rewarding or meaningful than watching The Wire. But apples-to-apples, watching video is the only common activity that feels maximally passive. I guess with the exception of listening to music? Not sure how this fits in
    - pdntspa 4y ago
      Music consumption itself is passive, but we frequently use it as a backdrop to do other things. Or we dance to it. I would like to think that the curation of playlists or mp3 libraries is considerably more involved than doing so with videos, on account of how limited in scope most songs/tracks are compared to video.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        I’m sure if you drew a Venn diagram of “people who post to HN” and “people who dance”, the overlap wouldn’t be that large.

drivingmenuts 4y ago

I do some of those other things, but I also like some TV. I see no reason to apologize for that. Nor a reason to berate anyone else about their choice.

mixmastamyk 4y ago

Yes, often when we meet folks they wanna talk about their shows. And I kinda inwardly groan. Don't people have their own lives and do things any more? Maybe the rent is too high to do anything but work then crash in front of the TV these days?

jamincan 4y ago
It's often nice to talk about things that you share in common - weather, kids, and traditionally TV have often fill those roles. These are the normal ways to break the ice and get to know someone better before delving into other topics.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Talking about our lives is generally more interesting than fictional ones. And if it’s not, take a hike or something. ;-)

minsc_and_boo 4y ago

>It's solitary, sedentary, and passive. People probably said the same about reading at several points in history. It's about how you use the technology, not the technology itself.

HKH2 4y ago
Reading requires that you use your imagination to make words make sense. It is not passive.
- minsc_and_boo 4y ago
  And there are movies that make you use your imagination too. They're not that different.
abudabi123 4y ago
Reading a language you are in the process of learning is a form of puzzle assembly and takes the mind to places it would not have other wise.
- scarface74 4y ago
  And many of my coworkers whose second language is English said that they learned English by watching TV.
- dwild 4y ago
  You can probably say something similar for any form of entertainment. You can always gain something from it (and that's excluding the benefit of doing something you enjoy).

mattgreenrocks 4y ago

And YouTube is fast turning into everything that TV is.

fortyseven 4y ago

Grandpa? You know the rules about using the family computer after 8pm. You're supposed to be sleeping. It's for your health. Come on: back to bed.

rhaway84773 4y ago

It’s not clear to me how playing video games is any better or worse than watching TV, other than it appears to be your preferred choice of entertainment. I’ll watch TV for an hour or so a day before calling it a night and it gives my spouse and me a lot to talk about, something to bond over, build a corpus of inside jokes, be able to talk to other people who might have watched a particular show, etc.

HeavyFeather 4y ago
> It’s not clear to me how playing video games is any better or worse than watching TV, other than it appears to be your preferred choice of entertainment. Having to interact with a world is by definition more active than solely watching. Since GP is judging sedentary and passive content ingestion, then yes, it’s much better. Especially when the TV content is mindless reality TV. (I’m not a gamer myself)

tracerbulletx 4y ago

There exists many TV shows that have artistic merit rivaling any book or film. The secret is just to actively select and seek out those specific works and not passively watch whatever random thing.

midoridensha 4y ago

You're single, right? >Do something else! Play a videogame. Read a book. Go out and do something calming. Stop worshipping TV and movies and entertainment Videogames and books are things you can't do with a partner. Going out is, but that takes a lot of time (travel time is a lot of overhead) and usually costs money unless you just go to the local park or something. Plus, it's restricted by the weather. >And for god sakes stop sucking off the teat of these stupid subscription plans! The least we can do to fight pack is to pirate it. Since this article is about YouTube TV, I'd like to plug the excellent Android TV app "SmartTubeNext". If you have a Google/Android TV, you can install this app (it's a bit of a pain since Google won't allow it in the Play store, so you need a downloader app to install it directly from GitHub) and watch YouTube videos without ads or sponsor segments.

jmholla 4y ago
> Since this article is about YouTube TV, I'd like to plug the excellent Android TV app "SmartTubeNext". If you have a Google/Android TV, you can install this app (it's a bit of a pain since Google won't allow it in the Play store, so you need a downloader app to install it directly from GitHub) and watch YouTube videos without ads or sponsor segments. NewPipe is available on F-Droid and offers the same thing.
junon 4y ago
> Videogames and books are things you can't do with a partner. There are, in fact, many games that are playable by more than one person.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I need to say this on HN, but since you've probably never dated any women, I have to inform you that almost no women actually want to play first-person shooter deathmatches with you.
  - junon 4y ago
    First, these sorts of comments are best left to Reddit, not here. Secondly, I'm gay and my boyfriend and I play tons of video games together. Third, even if I wasn't, I'd probably have the wherewithall to find a girlfriend that shares my interests or at least doesn't have a problem with them. Amazingly, humans (yes, including women, perhaps shocking to you) are complex and nuanced creatures that find enjoyment across a wide range of activities. Women can absolutely enjoy video games, just not when they're forced to play with sexist creeps like you.

andsoitis 4y ago

There are 4 million books published each year. 4 million!

scarface74 4y ago

Yes because no one on HN has a significant other that they spend time with watching TV. Or do you think after 12 years my wife and I should spend all of our time together looking lovingly into each others eyes talking about our relationship? So instead “playing video games” is much more stimulating? You realize the previous generation also said video games were ruining children? It’s also funny that your alternative was “playing video games” and not going outside for run, riding a bike, etc - anything that requires physical exertion or actually being around a group of other people.