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I don't know why they focus on texts so much more than calls. I get like 60 scam calls for every scam text. Scam texts are mildly inconvenient. Scam calls on t

I don't know why they focus on texts so much more than calls. I get like 60 scam calls for every scam text. Scam texts are mildly inconvenient. Scam calls on the other hand are far worse. I get so many scam calls I don't pick up any phone numbers not on my contact list, and which causes me to miss several important phone calls a year.

matheweis 4y ago
Second half of the article is in fact about closing down some of the gaps that enable scam calls.
dboreham 4y ago
Opposite for me. Few calls these days but constant sms. Also calls I just never answer whereas sms I need to go clear the app notification status so I can detect real sms.
- paul7986 4y ago
  Indeed barely no calls yet I have that iphone setting turned on that all unknown numbers go to voicemail (still am not seeing a lot of missed garbage calls though). Lately all just getting those pointless Amazon scam b.s. texts that I hope the majority of the population know the drill.. .never open just delete. The scammers I am afraid will start to really use AI ... hack/monitor legions of phones ...spoof your contact list and call you then actually spoof the voice of some of your contacts. For me then I would only use something like a Facebook messenger set up where I only add friends I know already and they pass a series of questions we only know between each other. It's going to get worse .. thinking ahead.
qup 4y ago
Perhaps because it's much easier to filter scam texts when you already know the contents before they're delivered to the recipient. From my own anecdata, I've received about 50/50 texts/calls. I also do not pick up unknown numbers anymore.
- flangola7 4y ago
  Also, filtering on a waveform is much harder than text data.
  - kerkeslager 4y ago
    Filtering on a waveform that doesn't exist until the user picks up the phone is literally impossible.
  - doubleg72 4y ago
    What does this even mean?
    - squeaky-clean 4y ago
      It's hard to use automation to tell if the phone call you're receiving is a Medicare spam call, or a genuine call about Medicare for example. "I buy junk cars" is pretty easy to filter out. Nowadays they send things like "i/buy/any old/car Yconpro/autos*" (this is a real one I got 9 hours ago). But that's still easier to design a filter for than a phone call which only happens over audio.
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    They should be able to recognize spoofed numbers though. More than 90% of spam calls I get are clearly coming from a spoofed number. Sometimes it's even my own number. I know the current infrastructure can't really deal with that, but it's because the telecoms have no real reason to implement it.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      That’s interesting, I have never seen that. I get almost all of my spam from VoIP numbers in the same area code as my number.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Clearly spoofed as it’s not the IRS or the number is too coincidentally close to yours? My employer seems to have gotten a lot of sequential phone numbers assigned, so a similar number used to be highly correlated with legitimacy, now it’s a mixed bag.
r00fus 4y ago
I used to, but now I just have the iOS "silence unknown callers" unless I'm expecting urgent other random calls. It's been bliss. My work doesn't use my personal phone# - I know this isn't possible for everyone but works for me.
- dcow 4y ago
  I am thinking about making the leap. If it’s really an important message they have my email and can text. Edit: I just did. Voicemail is an option too.
  - nanidin 4y ago
    I did it also. Do you use a personalized voicemail greeting or the default from your carrier?
- yafbum 4y ago
  Works until you have young kids in school or daycare or other places where you drop them off without a cell phone. Then you really need to be able to pick them up when the caretakers or friends' parents call you up.
  - _rs 4y ago
    Yeah, 100% this. Deviant Ollam talks about something like this (though maybe a bit more high stakes (maybe not)) in his talk here about risk preparedness I found really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI
  - r00fus 4y ago
    Yeah I was in your shoes a few years back. At that point I used google voice with call screening and gave that number out to those places.
deathanatos 4y ago
As I think your replies indicate, it's variable. I get pretty much only scam calls. But my SO gets lots of scam SMSs, even ones targeting my work, such as claiming to be from "my boss". I get plenty of spam SMS, but they're not technically scams. (…unless I suppose if you jokingly consider the GOP a scam…) I wouldn't mind seeing those get cracked down on. (I'm not registered with them, and they continue to spam me about political issues in jurisdictions for which I've not been on the voter roles for over a decade.) Also, spam SMSs trying to get me to sell my parent's home. (I don't think these are scams, per se, but from what I've read their offers aren't going to be good. Nonetheless, I'm not looking to evict my mother … out of a house I don't own?, of course.) Finally, my hometown has apparently sold their soul … and somehow my cell phone information? … to a random private company. Instead of publishing WEAs like a normal jurisdiction, I get SMSes that have little to no context, like "take shelter from the storm" while it's completely sunny and the forcast is nothing but sun, and the radar is clear. (It took a while to figure out that they were warnings about a city a few thousand miles away, since, again … 0 context.)
aendruk 4y ago
The FCC’s statements address this: > Recipients of a robocall have the ability to either pick up the phone or not. But on most devices, recipients of a robotext see at least some of an unwanted message immediately > …unlike robocalls, scam text messages are hard to ignore or hang-up on and are nearly always read by the recipient – often immediately. In addition, robotexts can promote links to phishing websites or websites that can install malware on a consumer’s phone. And per the article this particular regulation is already in effect for calls: > The FCC already requires similar blocking of voice calls from these types of numbers.
- cronix 4y ago
  > The FCC already requires similar blocking of voice calls from these types of numbers. In other words, it won't change anything. I still get just as many scam voice calls as I ever have.
  - thewebcount 4y ago
    I don't know. When the phone law went into affect a couple months ago, nothing changed. We were getting about 5 junk calls per day. But suddenly in the last 2 weeks, we're down to only a couple per week. Not sure if there's any correlation or if it's just a coincidence.
  - xeromal 4y ago
    It takes a while for carriers to come into compliance. It's relative new orders.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  All true, but here are some counterpoints: Recipients of a robotext can choose to delay the moment of interruption. They can wait until a more convenient moment to read a text, and determine whether it was spam or not. Recipients of a robocall have to deal with the interruption immediately. They can potentially delay to voicemail, but that isn't a guarantee. Because of this, the expectation of robocalls is enough to put the act of answering any unknown caller past the threshold of reasonable effort. Being interrupted by a robocall is likely enough that I don't answer calls from any unsaved numbers; unless I'm expecting an unavoidable call (something employment or healthcare related), in which case I am held captive: forced to answer every spam call the moment it rings. In that situation, not only must I answer the spam calls, but I must also be prepared each time to answer the important call I am waiting for! This is incredibly stressful, especially since I have ADHD and struggle to prepare for, and to keep myself prepared for, a phone conversation. Both types of spam are serious problems, but it's robocalls that cause me the most stress and general harm.
tomcam 4y ago
FWIW I seem to have reduced them to a few a week by picking up the call and just not talking. If it's a legit number not in my contacts the caller will ask for me. If it's a scam call they just hang up after a moment and I think they're starting to put me on their own do not call lists. Any chance that might work for you?
- CameronNemo 4y ago
  I do the same. Mostly they just hang up. Sometimes they start threatening to take possession of the real estate I don't own.
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  I can't help but think it's funny that scammers may have their own do-not-call list.
- jdavis703 4y ago
  Yes, as someone who has done volunteer telemarketing, we mark the call status. For example if you’re angry/rude, non-English speaking, disconnected, etc. Campaign managers can then target call sheets accordingly (e.g. for a Spanish-speaking line, have the Spanish team do a follow up call).
  - tomcam 4y ago
    That’s really cool to find out. Thank you.
- thfuran 4y ago
  I ported my number to a voip service and set up an IVR that forces callers to press a number. I've gotten exactly one spam call in the roughly one year since I did that.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  That also works collectively by clogging up their lines and costing them more in connection fees.
alfalfasprout 4y ago
So many replies but few actually addressed steps the FCC indeed is taking. Eg; the implementation of STIR/SHAKEN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN to prevent caller ID spoofing.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  They switched it on years ago and nothing changed, I still get loads of spam calls.
  - kerkeslager 4y ago
    Massive changes to international protocols aren't just "switched on".
    - jjoonathan 4y ago
      Two years. No change. Maybe the last bits are clicking into place and it'll all get better any day now. Maybe. Or maybe the whole effort was scuppered with a well-placed caveat. I hope not, but that's what I'm starting to fear. I'd appreciate if you could tell me what's going on and put those fears to rest.
clnq 4y ago
How does one get this many scam calls? Is this something that happens in the US but not in Europe? I've not been scam called once in the EU and only scam-texted once or twice.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Since your question gets asked almost verbatim every time this topic comes up on HN, I can help you with an answer. This happens both in the US and Europe. But some people, both in the US and Europe, get hardly any scam/spam calls. Other people, both in the US and Europe, get tons.
  - clnq 4y ago
    Sorry but it's a bit of a non-answer. "Some people get (or do, or are) X" is a nearly universal truth. After looking into it a bit more, spam calls seem to be significantly less prevalent in many smaller EU countries that speak their own language when compared to the global average. Probably because it's harder to find scammers speaking the language, or it's less cost-effective to target those demographics. A lot of reliable research is paywalled, but from what I was able to scrape together, it seems like people in Germany get about 3 times as many spam calls compared to people in Estonia, and people in the US get about 3 times as many spam calls as those in Germany. Those in India get about 3 times more than people in the US, and people in Brazil get about 3 times more spam calls than those in India. So depending on where you live you may get 81x the amount of scam calls as people in a different region. At least based on quick and unreliable back-of-the-envelope math. Central and Eastern European countries may get 9x fewer spam calls per capita than the US.
    - arlcode 4y ago
      Could you point to relevant research anyway? I'd be interested and maybe it's possible to "find" it somewhere. This doesn't reflect my personal experience (anecdata I know) or those of any of the people I know. I'll think I'll ask around because now I'm curious about the distribution. If a few people here are bombarded with spam calls it would average out the 1-2 a year me and my family/friends get on average on their mobile numbers.
kerkeslager 4y ago
They don't. It's just that the solution to scam voice calls is a lot harder to implement--there's no point making rules to address voice calls because there is not yet the technical capability to follow any rules around that. The STIR/SHAKEN protocols which will address voice scam calls when they're fully deployed, but that's a fundamental change to the protocol, which takes time. Texts, on the other hand, can be text scanned independent of the number from which they originate, which allows for a lot of filtering.
whalesalad 4y ago
This used to be the case for me but recently I got added to some kind of list and I get almost 1 SMS spam text per day, hardly any spam calls anymore. I usually answer them and fuck with the person on the other end for as long as possible so maybe I got blacklisted lul.
skee8383 4y ago
Me too. i'm getting like 3 scam calls per day now. some are from unsuspecting work from home people that have been duped in being the fall guys for the scammers, i can tell because when i tell them what they are doing is against the law and they could be fined thousands of dollars for it, they immediately crap their pants and start apologizing.
hummus_bae 4y ago
[dead]
thomastjeffery 4y ago
SMS would be a much better platform if there were actually any decent apps. I want but cannot find these features: - Disable/mute notifications for all unsaved (contactless) numbers. - Block all texts from email addresses. Real people know what is painfully obvious: you can use my email for that! - Disable/mute notifications for all group texts. People don't expect to get an immediate response from sending a message to a group. You can practically never get multiple people together in person for a conversation without coordinating with each person beforehand.
InCityDreams 4y ago
Pick them up and let them play. Dont engage in conversation. I dont listen to them. Calls went down for me, considerably after using this trick. Even if the call starts with a robot or a recording, let ot play - there'll be a human after and they are not badly paid to talk to noone. Your number will be taken off the lists for wasting their time. AI is going yo be fun.

matheweis 4y ago

Second half of the article is in fact about closing down some of the gaps that enable scam calls.

dboreham 4y ago

Opposite for me. Few calls these days but constant sms. Also calls I just never answer whereas sms I need to go clear the app notification status so I can detect real sms.

paul7986 4y ago
Indeed barely no calls yet I have that iphone setting turned on that all unknown numbers go to voicemail (still am not seeing a lot of missed garbage calls though). Lately all just getting those pointless Amazon scam b.s. texts that I hope the majority of the population know the drill.. .never open just delete. The scammers I am afraid will start to really use AI ... hack/monitor legions of phones ...spoof your contact list and call you then actually spoof the voice of some of your contacts. For me then I would only use something like a Facebook messenger set up where I only add friends I know already and they pass a series of questions we only know between each other. It's going to get worse .. thinking ahead.

qup 4y ago

Perhaps because it's much easier to filter scam texts when you already know the contents before they're delivered to the recipient. From my own anecdata, I've received about 50/50 texts/calls. I also do not pick up unknown numbers anymore.

flangola7 4y ago
Also, filtering on a waveform is much harder than text data.
- kerkeslager 4y ago
  Filtering on a waveform that doesn't exist until the user picks up the phone is literally impossible.
- doubleg72 4y ago
  What does this even mean?
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    It's hard to use automation to tell if the phone call you're receiving is a Medicare spam call, or a genuine call about Medicare for example. "I buy junk cars" is pretty easy to filter out. Nowadays they send things like "i/buy/any old/car Yconpro/autos*" (this is a real one I got 9 hours ago). But that's still easier to design a filter for than a phone call which only happens over audio.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  They should be able to recognize spoofed numbers though. More than 90% of spam calls I get are clearly coming from a spoofed number. Sometimes it's even my own number. I know the current infrastructure can't really deal with that, but it's because the telecoms have no real reason to implement it.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    That’s interesting, I have never seen that. I get almost all of my spam from VoIP numbers in the same area code as my number.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Clearly spoofed as it’s not the IRS or the number is too coincidentally close to yours? My employer seems to have gotten a lot of sequential phone numbers assigned, so a similar number used to be highly correlated with legitimacy, now it’s a mixed bag.

r00fus 4y ago

I used to, but now I just have the iOS "silence unknown callers" unless I'm expecting urgent other random calls. It's been bliss. My work doesn't use my personal phone# - I know this isn't possible for everyone but works for me.

dcow 4y ago
I am thinking about making the leap. If it’s really an important message they have my email and can text. Edit: I just did. Voicemail is an option too.
- nanidin 4y ago
  I did it also. Do you use a personalized voicemail greeting or the default from your carrier?
yafbum 4y ago
Works until you have young kids in school or daycare or other places where you drop them off without a cell phone. Then you really need to be able to pick them up when the caretakers or friends' parents call you up.
- _rs 4y ago
  Yeah, 100% this. Deviant Ollam talks about something like this (though maybe a bit more high stakes (maybe not)) in his talk here about risk preparedness I found really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI
- r00fus 4y ago
  Yeah I was in your shoes a few years back. At that point I used google voice with call screening and gave that number out to those places.

deathanatos 4y ago

As I think your replies indicate, it's variable. I get pretty much only scam calls. But my SO gets lots of scam SMSs, even ones targeting my work, such as claiming to be from "my boss". I get plenty of spam SMS, but they're not technically scams. (…unless I suppose if you jokingly consider the GOP a scam…) I wouldn't mind seeing those get cracked down on. (I'm not registered with them, and they continue to spam me about political issues in jurisdictions for which I've not been on the voter roles for over a decade.) Also, spam SMSs trying to get me to sell my parent's home. (I don't think these are scams, per se, but from what I've read their offers aren't going to be good. Nonetheless, I'm not looking to evict my mother … out of a house I don't own?, of course.) Finally, my hometown has apparently sold their soul … and somehow my cell phone information? … to a random private company. Instead of publishing WEAs like a normal jurisdiction, I get SMSes that have little to no context, like "take shelter from the storm" while it's completely sunny and the forcast is nothing but sun, and the radar is clear. (It took a while to figure out that they were warnings about a city a few thousand miles away, since, again … 0 context.)

aendruk 4y ago

The FCC’s statements address this: > Recipients of a robocall have the ability to either pick up the phone or not. But on most devices, recipients of a robotext see at least some of an unwanted message immediately > …unlike robocalls, scam text messages are hard to ignore or hang-up on and are nearly always read by the recipient – often immediately. In addition, robotexts can promote links to phishing websites or websites that can install malware on a consumer’s phone. And per the article this particular regulation is already in effect for calls: > The FCC already requires similar blocking of voice calls from these types of numbers.

cronix 4y ago
> The FCC already requires similar blocking of voice calls from these types of numbers. In other words, it won't change anything. I still get just as many scam voice calls as I ever have.
- thewebcount 4y ago
  I don't know. When the phone law went into affect a couple months ago, nothing changed. We were getting about 5 junk calls per day. But suddenly in the last 2 weeks, we're down to only a couple per week. Not sure if there's any correlation or if it's just a coincidence.
- xeromal 4y ago
  It takes a while for carriers to come into compliance. It's relative new orders.
thomastjeffery 4y ago
All true, but here are some counterpoints: Recipients of a robotext can choose to delay the moment of interruption. They can wait until a more convenient moment to read a text, and determine whether it was spam or not. Recipients of a robocall have to deal with the interruption immediately. They can potentially delay to voicemail, but that isn't a guarantee. Because of this, the expectation of robocalls is enough to put the act of answering any unknown caller past the threshold of reasonable effort. Being interrupted by a robocall is likely enough that I don't answer calls from any unsaved numbers; unless I'm expecting an unavoidable call (something employment or healthcare related), in which case I am held captive: forced to answer every spam call the moment it rings. In that situation, not only must I answer the spam calls, but I must also be prepared each time to answer the important call I am waiting for! This is incredibly stressful, especially since I have ADHD and struggle to prepare for, and to keep myself prepared for, a phone conversation. Both types of spam are serious problems, but it's robocalls that cause me the most stress and general harm.

tomcam 4y ago

FWIW I seem to have reduced them to a few a week by picking up the call and just not talking. If it's a legit number not in my contacts the caller will ask for me. If it's a scam call they just hang up after a moment and I think they're starting to put me on their own do not call lists. Any chance that might work for you?

CameronNemo 4y ago
I do the same. Mostly they just hang up. Sometimes they start threatening to take possession of the real estate I don't own.
onetimeusename 4y ago
I can't help but think it's funny that scammers may have their own do-not-call list.
jdavis703 4y ago
Yes, as someone who has done volunteer telemarketing, we mark the call status. For example if you’re angry/rude, non-English speaking, disconnected, etc. Campaign managers can then target call sheets accordingly (e.g. for a Spanish-speaking line, have the Spanish team do a follow up call).
- tomcam 4y ago
  That’s really cool to find out. Thank you.
thfuran 4y ago
I ported my number to a voip service and set up an IVR that forces callers to press a number. I've gotten exactly one spam call in the roughly one year since I did that.
Scoundreller 4y ago
That also works collectively by clogging up their lines and costing them more in connection fees.

alfalfasprout 4y ago

So many replies but few actually addressed steps the FCC indeed is taking. Eg; the implementation of STIR/SHAKEN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN to prevent caller ID spoofing.

jjoonathan 4y ago
They switched it on years ago and nothing changed, I still get loads of spam calls.
- kerkeslager 4y ago
  Massive changes to international protocols aren't just "switched on".
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    Two years. No change. Maybe the last bits are clicking into place and it'll all get better any day now. Maybe. Or maybe the whole effort was scuppered with a well-placed caveat. I hope not, but that's what I'm starting to fear. I'd appreciate if you could tell me what's going on and put those fears to rest.

clnq 4y ago

How does one get this many scam calls? Is this something that happens in the US but not in Europe? I've not been scam called once in the EU and only scam-texted once or twice.

rootusrootus 4y ago
Since your question gets asked almost verbatim every time this topic comes up on HN, I can help you with an answer. This happens both in the US and Europe. But some people, both in the US and Europe, get hardly any scam/spam calls. Other people, both in the US and Europe, get tons.
- clnq 4y ago
  Sorry but it's a bit of a non-answer. "Some people get (or do, or are) X" is a nearly universal truth. After looking into it a bit more, spam calls seem to be significantly less prevalent in many smaller EU countries that speak their own language when compared to the global average. Probably because it's harder to find scammers speaking the language, or it's less cost-effective to target those demographics. A lot of reliable research is paywalled, but from what I was able to scrape together, it seems like people in Germany get about 3 times as many spam calls compared to people in Estonia, and people in the US get about 3 times as many spam calls as those in Germany. Those in India get about 3 times more than people in the US, and people in Brazil get about 3 times more spam calls than those in India. So depending on where you live you may get 81x the amount of scam calls as people in a different region. At least based on quick and unreliable back-of-the-envelope math. Central and Eastern European countries may get 9x fewer spam calls per capita than the US.
  - arlcode 4y ago
    Could you point to relevant research anyway? I'd be interested and maybe it's possible to "find" it somewhere. This doesn't reflect my personal experience (anecdata I know) or those of any of the people I know. I'll think I'll ask around because now I'm curious about the distribution. If a few people here are bombarded with spam calls it would average out the 1-2 a year me and my family/friends get on average on their mobile numbers.

kerkeslager 4y ago

They don't. It's just that the solution to scam voice calls is a lot harder to implement--there's no point making rules to address voice calls because there is not yet the technical capability to follow any rules around that. The STIR/SHAKEN protocols which will address voice scam calls when they're fully deployed, but that's a fundamental change to the protocol, which takes time. Texts, on the other hand, can be text scanned independent of the number from which they originate, which allows for a lot of filtering.

whalesalad 4y ago

This used to be the case for me but recently I got added to some kind of list and I get almost 1 SMS spam text per day, hardly any spam calls anymore. I usually answer them and fuck with the person on the other end for as long as possible so maybe I got blacklisted lul.

skee8383 4y ago

Me too. i'm getting like 3 scam calls per day now. some are from unsuspecting work from home people that have been duped in being the fall guys for the scammers, i can tell because when i tell them what they are doing is against the law and they could be fined thousands of dollars for it, they immediately crap their pants and start apologizing.

hummus_bae 4y ago

[dead]

thomastjeffery 4y ago

SMS would be a much better platform if there were actually any decent apps. I want but cannot find these features: - Disable/mute notifications for all unsaved (contactless) numbers. - Block all texts from email addresses. Real people know what is painfully obvious: you can use my email for that! - Disable/mute notifications for all group texts. People don't expect to get an immediate response from sending a message to a group. You can practically never get multiple people together in person for a conversation without coordinating with each person beforehand.

InCityDreams 4y ago

Pick them up and let them play. Dont engage in conversation. I dont listen to them. Calls went down for me, considerably after using this trick. Even if the call starts with a robot or a recording, let ot play - there'll be a human after and they are not badly paid to talk to noone. Your number will be taken off the lists for wasting their time. AI is going yo be fun.