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I am asking genuinely, without implying anything and/or being sarcastic: why is the HN community so obsessed with Rust? It seems to show up on every programming

I am asking genuinely, without implying anything and/or being sarcastic: why is the HN community so obsessed with Rust? It seems to show up on every programming-related thread and most times mentioned as a Swiss knife of a language, suitable for every task, from UI to firmware development - a departure from the more traditional view of certain languages being best for certain tasks. I get the benefits of the language and would like to see it succeed, but real-world adoption seems to be way below what's imagined here, and the "good for every task" posts give it kind of a cultish vibe that makes me look away.

EGreg 4y ago
Same reason they all hate blockchain and smart contracts, or many still believe that AI will be a net good for the world. Groupthink. I enjoy thinking and speaking based on fundamentals, regardless of what surface ideas people at large have. In fact, besides grounding me in facts and reality, it gives me a huge advantage as an entrepreneur, to be able to see possibilities people don’t.
RussianCow 4y ago
You're likely getting downvoted because there is a comment like this on every Rust-related thread and people are tired of it. Frankly, people are excited about Rust. It promises C-like performance and utility while being more expressive and much safer. Cargo is awesome. The level of quality of its ecosystem is, in general, unlike that of most other programming languages. At the end of the day, people are just really enthusiastic about it and want its community and ecosystem to grow so they can use it for more things. Is it sometimes taken too far? Absolutely, but you could say the same thing about most popular languages at some point: JS, Python, Java, etc.
- cultofmetatron 4y ago
  I love cargo. Its the most ergonomic dependency manager and build tool I've ever worked with. I completely understand why there'd be a cult around it.
  - danrocks 4y ago
    I see what you did there.
- danrocks 4y ago
  If that was the only premise ("C-like performance, etc.") then I can understand. What I don't is that there seems to be no use case for which Rust isn't good. That is the part that bothers me.
  - 0x457 4y ago
    > What I don't is that there seems to be no use case for which Rust isn't good. There are plenty of such cases and those raised constantly here and comment threads even slightly related to Rust.
  - smlavine 4y ago
    Wayland compositors, maybe: https://way-cooler.org/blog/2019/04/29/rewriting-way-cooler-in-c.html https://way-cooler.org/blog/2019/04/29/rewriting-way-cooler-...
  - jmaygarden 4y ago
    How is that different than C++? The places where you would pick something like Python instead for expediency still apply… To be honest, I used to feel the same way that you do about Rust posts. Then I started using it, and I got enthusiastic as well.
  - bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
    I'm a big fan of Rust, but I have to admit its up-front development costs are not always worth the trouble. Rust isn't great for rapid prototyping, where Python excels. Python is quicker for the first few hundred LoC, but I quickly find myself reaching for Rust enums (aka ADTs or sum types), match expressions, and the assurances of static typing. It's also a bit annoying dealing with &str vs String. I frequently find myself writing things like "foo".to_string(). It's also difficult to build Rust with Bazel, and possibly other non-Cargo build systems.
    - singhrac 4y ago
      It isn't fast (really as far as you can get from "zero cost abstractions") but you can have Rusty enums via sum types in Python, and a poor man's match expression. It's not even that bad, really. With Pylance (or possibly mypy, haven't tried) the experience of writing typed Python is quite good.
kllrnohj 4y ago
Rust is a genuinely interesting language but I think part of the problem is that a lot of the posts about it lately are just not. There's been a string of "we did generic boring thing everyone has been doing for a decade+ BUT IN RUST!!!!" articles lately that are not helping to dissuade the "cult vibes" This link, for example, is... Boring? Like why is it here? What's to discuss? Should we just link to the PIP repository, too?
- capableweb 4y ago
  > Like why is it here? I submitted the URL and enough people found it interesting, so it ended up on the frontpage. The same for every submission you find on the frontpage. > What's to discuss? The state of game development with Rust. Apparently there is a lot to discuss, as it's currently on the #1 spot on the frontpage, with 60 comments. > Should we just link to the PIP repository, too? You're welcome to submit whatever websites you want. If enough people find it interesting, there will discussion around then subject.
  - kllrnohj 4y ago
    > Apparently there is a lot to discuss, as it's currently on the #1 spot on the frontpage, with 60 comments. Half of which is "why/what is this" and "what's with the 'areweyet' thing?" There's not a whole lot of discussion about game development in Rust going on, and less still about the actual content of the link.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      I count 9 + 13 + 7 "AreWeXYet" comments while the rest of the 100 comments (129 - (9 + 13 + 7)) seems to be related to the subject. "Rust" is mentioned 137 times. Unless you've manually counted all the comments, it seems like you're incorrect, most of the discussions are related to the subject at hand, compared to this thread you started here :)
- Steltek 4y ago
  Posts like this are for people interested in using Rust. It's advertising expanded functionality and access to more use cases. There are enough of those people on this site that it makes it to the front page. If you do not fall into the above class of people, then yes, this doesn't look interesting. While I don't use or advocate for Rust in a professional capacity, I really like seeing the barrier to entry get lower and lower. In the same way that people fall back to Python for completely random tasks because it's familiar and the path forward is well mapped.
Kwpolska 4y ago
You can write games in C++ (Unreal Engine), C# (Unity and Godot), Java (LWJGL, as seen in Minecraft), Python (using PyGame), JavaScript (DOM/canvas or something fancier). Nobody is using PyGame for anything serious, and Minecraft is probably the only serious Java game, but you can still play around with those. C++ is popular in the game industry, because it compiles to native code and can be fast. Rust can also do both of these things, and it’s also memory-safe and saner in general, so why not try writing games with it and improve the game stability and developer experience?
- jsheard 4y ago
  > and Minecraft is probably the only serious Java game ...and even Minecraft was ultimately re-written in C++ to bring it to mobile and consoles
  - technerder 4y ago
    I believe this is only true for the "Bedrock" version of the game, the "Java" edition is still written in Java.
- oriolid 4y ago
  As far as I know, Unity uses C# as scripting language and does the heavy lifting in C++. And the usual way for making mobile builds for Unity games is converting everything to C++ with IL2CPP and then compiling that to native binary.
  - Kwpolska 4y ago
    As far as I know, web browsers use JavaScript as a scripting language and do the heavy lifting in C++. Your average Unity game developer does not do anything in C++. The engine itself is implemented in C++, but the game logic written by game developers is in C#.
mejutoco 4y ago
Because of the zero-cost abstractions and memory safety.
- danrocks 4y ago
  Sure. Does that justify it being the best option for every development task? This is what I am puzzled by.
  - baby 4y ago
    Try it, enjoy it more than any other languages you’ve used before, want to use it everywhere you can
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    First you wrote: > I am asking genuinely, without implying anything and/or being sarcastic: Now you’ve written: > Sure. Does that justify it being the best option for every development task? This is what I am puzzled by. Your strawman hyperbole leads me to believe that your line of questioning is not genuine.
  - mejutoco 4y ago
    Isn't this a strawman? Are you sure somebody is making that point (I sure am not) or is an impression you get from reading isolated individuals using Rust for perfectly valid use cases.
baby 4y ago
I’ve been working for 4 years in Rust codebases, the first 2 years were at Facebook. So from my point of view there’s a good chance I will continue to work with Rust for a very long time. It’s simply a much nicer language to work with on many metrics, which are the ones that I consider important. Great developer experience, and great language.
avgcorrection 4y ago
If adoption is below what one thinks is appropriate then one can take it upon herself to argue for it. So that it gains the kind of adoption that one thinks it deserves. There’s nothing more to respond to your question beyond “agree to disagree”. You see the benefits of the language, want it to succeed, and get cultish vibes. Okay? There’s nothing to counter-argue here, beyond bickering about what is and what is not a cult. Maybe criticize the language itself? That would be more fruitful. (I see these kinds of comments on HN all the time: “I want to genuinely ask: why Thing? Why do you like Thing so much?.” And then there are a dozen replies giving stump speeches. I don’t get it.)

EGreg 4y ago

Same reason they all hate blockchain and smart contracts, or many still believe that AI will be a net good for the world. Groupthink. I enjoy thinking and speaking based on fundamentals, regardless of what surface ideas people at large have. In fact, besides grounding me in facts and reality, it gives me a huge advantage as an entrepreneur, to be able to see possibilities people don’t.

RussianCow 4y ago

You're likely getting downvoted because there is a comment like this on every Rust-related thread and people are tired of it. Frankly, people are excited about Rust. It promises C-like performance and utility while being more expressive and much safer. Cargo is awesome. The level of quality of its ecosystem is, in general, unlike that of most other programming languages. At the end of the day, people are just really enthusiastic about it and want its community and ecosystem to grow so they can use it for more things. Is it sometimes taken too far? Absolutely, but you could say the same thing about most popular languages at some point: JS, Python, Java, etc.

cultofmetatron 4y ago
I love cargo. Its the most ergonomic dependency manager and build tool I've ever worked with. I completely understand why there'd be a cult around it.
- danrocks 4y ago
  I see what you did there.
danrocks 4y ago
If that was the only premise ("C-like performance, etc.") then I can understand. What I don't is that there seems to be no use case for which Rust isn't good. That is the part that bothers me.
- 0x457 4y ago
  > What I don't is that there seems to be no use case for which Rust isn't good. There are plenty of such cases and those raised constantly here and comment threads even slightly related to Rust.
- smlavine 4y ago
  Wayland compositors, maybe: https://way-cooler.org/blog/2019/04/29/rewriting-way-cooler-in-c.html https://way-cooler.org/blog/2019/04/29/rewriting-way-cooler-...
- jmaygarden 4y ago
  How is that different than C++? The places where you would pick something like Python instead for expediency still apply… To be honest, I used to feel the same way that you do about Rust posts. Then I started using it, and I got enthusiastic as well.
- bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
  I'm a big fan of Rust, but I have to admit its up-front development costs are not always worth the trouble. Rust isn't great for rapid prototyping, where Python excels. Python is quicker for the first few hundred LoC, but I quickly find myself reaching for Rust enums (aka ADTs or sum types), match expressions, and the assurances of static typing. It's also a bit annoying dealing with &str vs String. I frequently find myself writing things like "foo".to_string(). It's also difficult to build Rust with Bazel, and possibly other non-Cargo build systems.
  - singhrac 4y ago
    It isn't fast (really as far as you can get from "zero cost abstractions") but you can have Rusty enums via sum types in Python, and a poor man's match expression. It's not even that bad, really. With Pylance (or possibly mypy, haven't tried) the experience of writing typed Python is quite good.

kllrnohj 4y ago

Rust is a genuinely interesting language but I think part of the problem is that a lot of the posts about it lately are just not. There's been a string of "we did generic boring thing everyone has been doing for a decade+ BUT IN RUST!!!!" articles lately that are not helping to dissuade the "cult vibes" This link, for example, is... Boring? Like why is it here? What's to discuss? Should we just link to the PIP repository, too?

capableweb 4y ago
> Like why is it here? I submitted the URL and enough people found it interesting, so it ended up on the frontpage. The same for every submission you find on the frontpage. > What's to discuss? The state of game development with Rust. Apparently there is a lot to discuss, as it's currently on the #1 spot on the frontpage, with 60 comments. > Should we just link to the PIP repository, too? You're welcome to submit whatever websites you want. If enough people find it interesting, there will discussion around then subject.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  > Apparently there is a lot to discuss, as it's currently on the #1 spot on the frontpage, with 60 comments. Half of which is "why/what is this" and "what's with the 'areweyet' thing?" There's not a whole lot of discussion about game development in Rust going on, and less still about the actual content of the link.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    I count 9 + 13 + 7 "AreWeXYet" comments while the rest of the 100 comments (129 - (9 + 13 + 7)) seems to be related to the subject. "Rust" is mentioned 137 times. Unless you've manually counted all the comments, it seems like you're incorrect, most of the discussions are related to the subject at hand, compared to this thread you started here :)
Steltek 4y ago
Posts like this are for people interested in using Rust. It's advertising expanded functionality and access to more use cases. There are enough of those people on this site that it makes it to the front page. If you do not fall into the above class of people, then yes, this doesn't look interesting. While I don't use or advocate for Rust in a professional capacity, I really like seeing the barrier to entry get lower and lower. In the same way that people fall back to Python for completely random tasks because it's familiar and the path forward is well mapped.

Kwpolska 4y ago

You can write games in C++ (Unreal Engine), C# (Unity and Godot), Java (LWJGL, as seen in Minecraft), Python (using PyGame), JavaScript (DOM/canvas or something fancier). Nobody is using PyGame for anything serious, and Minecraft is probably the only serious Java game, but you can still play around with those. C++ is popular in the game industry, because it compiles to native code and can be fast. Rust can also do both of these things, and it’s also memory-safe and saner in general, so why not try writing games with it and improve the game stability and developer experience?

jsheard 4y ago
> and Minecraft is probably the only serious Java game ...and even Minecraft was ultimately re-written in C++ to bring it to mobile and consoles
- technerder 4y ago
  I believe this is only true for the "Bedrock" version of the game, the "Java" edition is still written in Java.
oriolid 4y ago
As far as I know, Unity uses C# as scripting language and does the heavy lifting in C++. And the usual way for making mobile builds for Unity games is converting everything to C++ with IL2CPP and then compiling that to native binary.
- Kwpolska 4y ago
  As far as I know, web browsers use JavaScript as a scripting language and do the heavy lifting in C++. Your average Unity game developer does not do anything in C++. The engine itself is implemented in C++, but the game logic written by game developers is in C#.

mejutoco 4y ago

Because of the zero-cost abstractions and memory safety.

danrocks 4y ago
Sure. Does that justify it being the best option for every development task? This is what I am puzzled by.
- baby 4y ago
  Try it, enjoy it more than any other languages you’ve used before, want to use it everywhere you can
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  First you wrote: > I am asking genuinely, without implying anything and/or being sarcastic: Now you’ve written: > Sure. Does that justify it being the best option for every development task? This is what I am puzzled by. Your strawman hyperbole leads me to believe that your line of questioning is not genuine.
- mejutoco 4y ago
  Isn't this a strawman? Are you sure somebody is making that point (I sure am not) or is an impression you get from reading isolated individuals using Rust for perfectly valid use cases.

baby 4y ago

I’ve been working for 4 years in Rust codebases, the first 2 years were at Facebook. So from my point of view there’s a good chance I will continue to work with Rust for a very long time. It’s simply a much nicer language to work with on many metrics, which are the ones that I consider important. Great developer experience, and great language.

avgcorrection 4y ago

If adoption is below what one thinks is appropriate then one can take it upon herself to argue for it. So that it gains the kind of adoption that one thinks it deserves. There’s nothing more to respond to your question beyond “agree to disagree”. You see the benefits of the language, want it to succeed, and get cultish vibes. Okay? There’s nothing to counter-argue here, beyond bickering about what is and what is not a cult. Maybe criticize the language itself? That would be more fruitful. (I see these kinds of comments on HN all the time: “I want to genuinely ask: why Thing? Why do you like Thing so much?.” And then there are a dozen replies giving stump speeches. I don’t get it.)