5 ms·

It is also impressive how slow they deliver the option of ungrouping taskbar icons, which is requested by masses for years now, and actually worked before. I kn

It is also impressive how slow they deliver the option of ungrouping taskbar icons, which is requested by masses for years now, and actually worked before. I know, I know, that is a much harder poblem than AI. Maybe they need to improve AI much more first so it could have superhuman powers, solving the task bar ungrouping problem finally for the humanity.

warning26 4y ago
I don't like a lot of things about the direction that Microsoft has taken Windows's UX, but this is absolutely an edge case that only a tiny % of users care about, and certainly not "masses" of anyone.
- Pxtl 4y ago
  MS has such a huge userbase that I'd wager any GUI feature that's accessible from the desktop has "masses" of users.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    That just means "masses" as a concept gets diluted. It might be "masses" to a single outside observer, but a drop in the bucket to someone that has a picture of how big that mass truly is compared to the rest of the userbase.
- mihaaly 4y ago
  Google: windows ungroup taskbar icons There is even a paid app for that (beyond free ones)! : D
- RajT88 4y ago
  There are on the order of Billions of Windows devices out there. When you make a change like this where there is no configurable option to go back to the old style of working you cause issues for tens of millions of people who developed a workflow that depended on that. There have been dozens of little things like this. Some got fixed in Win11 eventually (so they were obviously bugs). My example: in Windows Explorer you can start typing the name of a file and as long as you keep a quick pace, you will end up with that file highlighted. When Win11 shipped, it stopped matching at the first letter.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
Maybe it's not actually being requested by masses and instead just a vocal minority that you happen to be a part of? Or maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it. Just because something that you want fixed isn't done does not mean they're "slow". If it hasn't been included after years of being "requested by masses", then it's more likely it just won't be included period.
- mihaaly 4y ago
  There is even a paid app doing that now! Beyond free ones. That's how rare problem is this. :D You actually meet with it daily, hourly if using two or more windows by the same app. Just because you are a hobbist user and never met a productivity problem it doesn't mean that the professional population does not suffer from it (see, I can make unfunded assumptions too about the other end ;) ). All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people. > maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;)
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    > There is even a paid app doing that now Does that somehow change prioritization? If anything, it would lower the priority because there's a workaround people can use. > All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people. If it was as large of a problem as you claim, with as wide an impacted userbase, it would have already been fixed. Yet here we are. All you've proven is that there is a vocal minority. Which I already said. At the scale of Microsoft and Windows (1.4 billion active users), for every person complaining about a specific problem, there are literally millions of users who aren't. Just because it is a problem for you does not mean it's automatically a big enough problem to address. If it isn't going to actively lose users (which it clearly isn't, considering people wrote apps to stay on Windows and have this behavior), then it isn't worth it. > Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;) I'm not a seer, but it's plainly obvious from a software prioritization standpoint. The taskbar was rewritten and the feature was not justified as being important enough to keep. Wow, such deep, so insight.
Pxtl 4y ago
Different teams have very different processes. The AI/Bing group is obviously much more "move fast and break things" than the OS group.
- winphone1974 4y ago
  This is a really good thing, right?
  - Pxtl 4y ago
    Well, it does mean there are some MS products where I know not to trust the software out of those teams to upgrade cleanly... if ever.
Amezarak 4y ago
I'm sure the issue there is designers believing they know better than power users how things should work, leading to the gradual evolution of software that is usable only by the lowest common denominator. This happens to a lot of projects, it's a shame it's infested MS.
xen2xen1 4y ago
No it's not. They obviously just decided not to do it.
KyeRussell 4y ago
Microsoft doesn’t lose points for not prioritising your personal workflow gripes as a power-user. Honestly anyone that prioritised working on this based purely on what you’ve described would NOT be a good product owner.

warning26 4y ago

I don't like a lot of things about the direction that Microsoft has taken Windows's UX, but this is absolutely an edge case that only a tiny % of users care about, and certainly not "masses" of anyone.

Pxtl 4y ago
MS has such a huge userbase that I'd wager any GUI feature that's accessible from the desktop has "masses" of users.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  That just means "masses" as a concept gets diluted. It might be "masses" to a single outside observer, but a drop in the bucket to someone that has a picture of how big that mass truly is compared to the rest of the userbase.
mihaaly 4y ago
Google: windows ungroup taskbar icons There is even a paid app for that (beyond free ones)! : D
RajT88 4y ago
There are on the order of Billions of Windows devices out there. When you make a change like this where there is no configurable option to go back to the old style of working you cause issues for tens of millions of people who developed a workflow that depended on that. There have been dozens of little things like this. Some got fixed in Win11 eventually (so they were obviously bugs). My example: in Windows Explorer you can start typing the name of a file and as long as you keep a quick pace, you will end up with that file highlighted. When Win11 shipped, it stopped matching at the first letter.

mynameisvlad 4y ago

Maybe it's not actually being requested by masses and instead just a vocal minority that you happen to be a part of? Or maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it. Just because something that you want fixed isn't done does not mean they're "slow". If it hasn't been included after years of being "requested by masses", then it's more likely it just won't be included period.

mihaaly 4y ago
There is even a paid app doing that now! Beyond free ones. That's how rare problem is this. :D You actually meet with it daily, hourly if using two or more windows by the same app. Just because you are a hobbist user and never met a productivity problem it doesn't mean that the professional population does not suffer from it (see, I can make unfunded assumptions too about the other end ;) ). All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people. > maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;)
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  > There is even a paid app doing that now Does that somehow change prioritization? If anything, it would lower the priority because there's a workaround people can use. > All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people. If it was as large of a problem as you claim, with as wide an impacted userbase, it would have already been fixed. Yet here we are. All you've proven is that there is a vocal minority. Which I already said. At the scale of Microsoft and Windows (1.4 billion active users), for every person complaining about a specific problem, there are literally millions of users who aren't. Just because it is a problem for you does not mean it's automatically a big enough problem to address. If it isn't going to actively lose users (which it clearly isn't, considering people wrote apps to stay on Windows and have this behavior), then it isn't worth it. > Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;) I'm not a seer, but it's plainly obvious from a software prioritization standpoint. The taskbar was rewritten and the feature was not justified as being important enough to keep. Wow, such deep, so insight.

Pxtl 4y ago

Different teams have very different processes. The AI/Bing group is obviously much more "move fast and break things" than the OS group.

winphone1974 4y ago
This is a really good thing, right?
- Pxtl 4y ago
  Well, it does mean there are some MS products where I know not to trust the software out of those teams to upgrade cleanly... if ever.

Amezarak 4y ago

I'm sure the issue there is designers believing they know better than power users how things should work, leading to the gradual evolution of software that is usable only by the lowest common denominator. This happens to a lot of projects, it's a shame it's infested MS.

xen2xen1 4y ago

No it's not. They obviously just decided not to do it.

KyeRussell 4y ago

Microsoft doesn’t lose points for not prioritising your personal workflow gripes as a power-user. Honestly anyone that prioritised working on this based purely on what you’ve described would NOT be a good product owner.