7 ms·

I let marijuana destroy my life. For about a year, I experienced all the benefits ppl use it for. Then all of a sudden I would get panic attacks and full-on psy

I let marijuana destroy my life. For about a year, I experienced all the benefits ppl use it for. Then all of a sudden I would get panic attacks and full-on psychosis. I would not wish these episodes on my worst enemy. The smell of it is so ubiquitous now that it's legal and it's a great deal of anxiety for someone like me. I acknowledge its benefits and that I'm probably a rare case. But it is disturbing to me how mainstream it's become. Certainly..some ppl will face the same repercussions I went through and I don't want that to happen. I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets

whalesalad 4y ago
Live and let live.
jerrygenser 4y ago
> I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets You could make the same argument for alcohol... it can destroy lives and yet is still legal.
- valenaut 4y ago
  Likewise for lotto tickets.
- andersentobias 4y ago
  I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. Cannabis on the other hand...
  - bitcoin_anon 4y ago
    Have you ever been to a bar?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Been to Oktoberfest. All of the Brit, Irish, Canadian and Australian members of the crew could not believe that much alcohol in one place without any barfights/disputes/blah. “This event wouldn’t be possible in Ireland”
      - red-iron-pine 4y ago
        I've been to Oktoberfest, too. My brother lived in Bavaria for a while. There were several fights, some blatant abuse of cocaine, and one of my female friends had someone get a hand down her pants and squeeze her butt without permission. No one got shot or stabbed, but it certainly wasn't a peaceful hangout.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      Or literally any city at 2 AM on Saturday/Sunday
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    What is psychosis defined as, and how is it any worse than the effects of excess alcohol consumption? On 30+ years, I have never seen someone get violent from cannabis, but with alcohol, it is a regular occurrence. Worked at a hotel when I was younger too, and you can bring me a hotel full of people high on cannabis, and the worst they ever did was buy a ton of snacks. Alcohol, on the other hand, was responsible for noise complaints, broken televisions, furniture, sexual assault, violent assault, cops being called all the time, etc.
    - andersentobias 4y ago
      Look. Maybe I'm crazy, but being unable to control one's emotions is a much less severe condition than not being able to know what is real and what is not for the individual in question. As an aside, my father was an alcoholic and a pathetic loser indulging in as much alcohol as self-pity. I am not defending excessive alcohol consumption. My point is: Even if you think weed is relatively better than alcohol from a big picture societal POV (we can agree to disagree here), don't underestimate the bad effects of weed. Don't be a weed-smoking loser just because it's legal. You have one body. Take care of it.
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    I know that driving while high accidents happen, but I have never heard of anybody being ran over by a high driver. Alcohol on the other hand...
    - andersentobias 4y ago
      It would be interesting to see larger samples of weed smokers vs alcohol drinkers, and the effects of each. I guess all sample sizes of weed smokers are small in public health studies.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Because you've never seen it makes it so it never happened?
  - riffic 4y ago
    you've never seen an angry drunk? you're very privileged.
  - kentrado 4y ago
    Alcohol can literally kill you. Cannabis on the other hand will not.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    > I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. I was a bartender for a while in college and off-and-on afterwards. I've seen dozens of barfights, several with people ending up in hospitals. No shootings, thankfully, but that absolutely happens outside of bars and clubs. There were at least 3 fatal DUIs that were traced back to coming from bars that I worked at; it led to the closure of one of them. Alcohol correlates directly to levels of domestic abuse, rape, assault, and murder. Most traffic accidents after 9pm are alcohol related. But weed makes you crazy and psychotic.
- droopyEyelids 4y ago
  The public health case for restrictive regulation of alcohol is actually much stronger than for marijuana
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Would the public health case be due to alcohol’s effects on others, or one’s self? If it is one’s self, then sugar, carbs, and sat fats are surely up there also. Although, one could define healthcare paid by other taxpayers as an effect on others, and that would encompass everything.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      Drunk driving is a huge one. Meanwhile CDC hasn’t been able to create actual evidence that driving while high causes more accidents. https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/driving.html https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/driving.html I’m not saying it doesn’t but alcohol causes so many unnecessary deaths in society due to drunk driving. Note: I’m not advocating for alcohol to be banned.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Phone use while driving probably eclipses any other risk factor these days: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-03-14/deaths-broken-limbs-distracted-driving https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-03-14/deaths-bro... But I bet it would be very politically unpopular to address phone use while driving.
        mrguyorama 4y ago
        It isn't. My state is looking into making the penalties stronger and people are generally favorable for that because they still see people driving every day with their face glued to their phone. The only people against distracted driving penalties are people who are entitled and think they should be able to put others in danger for their minor convenience or libertarian assholes who think seatbelt laws are oppressive nanny stating.
xyzwave 4y ago
I could say the same thing about running, overdo it and you’ll hurt yourself. We don’t need gatekeepers to prescribe these things only when a legitimate medical use demands it. There are countless examples in society where we allow people do things that are dangerous purely for the fun of it. Just because these are drugs we don’t need to justify their use as medicines. Instead let’s inform the public and have them make their own choice. The regulation should be in proportion to the extent of the harm. In both cannabis use and running, it’s restricted to the individual (and temporary), so we should regulate minimally.
- posterboy 4y ago
  That's a slippery Sloap argument, and an absurd one. The benefits of running to the cardio vascular system are generally seen as a positive, contrary to smoking. The threshold to overdoing it is orders of magnitudes out of proportion. And there is no common opinion on psychological impairment from running, again in contrast to the psychadelica related substance abuse.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Running has a significant negative impact on your joint health since most people run with the wrong techniques.
  - xyzwave 4y ago
    I don’t think this is a slippery slope [0], I’m only drawing a comparison. Additionally there are health benefits to cannabis (and psychedelics) as well. Whether it’s stress, anxiety (ironically), depression, etc. so the comparison remains apt. 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
    - posterboy 4y ago
      Here's a cthird comparandum for you. Breathing is rather beneficial for literally everybody and not doing it is very detrimental, actually fatal. How do you feel about the slippery slope now?
eurasiantiger 4y ago
Did you consume other drugs? Alcohol, coffee, tobacco?
9999px 4y ago
People will get defensive and kneejerk some vague response about how it doesn't affect _them_ that way (science!), but I agree 100% with you. It's a drug and it feels like it's being pushed on us these days by states and corporations.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on why you feel like it's being pushed on you? I've visited several US jurisdictions where it's legal. While it's still illegal in my area, I'm adjacent to fully legal and medically allowed areas. The only time I've felt any pressure was visiting Las Vegas, where every cab/uber/etc driver volunteered a recommendation for a pot store. I found the recommendations useful for knowing which stores are overpriced.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >it feels like it's being pushed on us these days by states and corporations. We can say the same for every popular consumer product. I personally prefer people choosing what they consume over criminalizing the ?billions? of people that find it harmless.
- gnulinux 4y ago
  Are caffeine and alcohol also pushed by corporations? Alcohol is many many orders of magnitude more destructive and toxic than THC, do we really want to go back to prohibition days? Illegalized drugs do not work. Period. The solution to all drug problems is legalizing it. Yes, including crystal meth and heroin. The absolute worst a government can do for substance abuse is to ban addictive, toxic drugs, which makes them so much more destructive. The opposite is shown to work: https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7 https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...
  - misja111 4y ago
    > The solution to all drug problems is legalizing it. Yes, including crystal meth and heroin There have been a few cases in the past were heroin use was allowed, or at least not actively prosecuted. They were absolute disasters. E.g. Zurich, 1986-1922: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8044118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8044118/
AlwaysRock 4y ago
I think this is more common than is really known at the moment. I had a similar experience. So have at least three other former regular users that I know. We've all stopped using almost entirely now. That being said, any drug when abused will have negative side effects. If marijuana is legal it will be easier to actually test, regulated, and provide guidelines for safe use. Everyone knows taking 6+ shots of some form of booze will likely cause you to be drunk. How much weed will cause you to be incapacitated? One puff? One joint? A dab? Half an edible? It's not clear. That feels like the real problem currently.
- monetus 4y ago
  Anxiety is being nailed down to fewer chemicals, as far as word of mouth goes - I have a friend who tries to increase the CBN to avoid anxiety.
gnulinux 4y ago
> [I personally abused something that's proven to be extremely helpful to millions of people, but because I had a uniquely bad experience with it, I vote for people having harder access to it.] I deeply apologize for saying this but what an absolutely bizarre opinion. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
- haswell 4y ago
  Most people safely enjoy alcohol. No one is pushing a narrative that alcohol is universally healthy and safe, and pushing accounts of alcoholism and other forms of maladaptive use under the rug. Nor do we blame alcoholics for the genes that make them susceptible. I strongly believe that cannabis should be legal, but also find it quite problematic that many users and advocates will quickly bristle the moment the downsides that many experience are described. I think the horrific levels of injustice prior to legalization has had a pendulum effect on conversations about safety and downsides. If someone describing their own negative experiences and belief that those experiences warrant more controls is so bizarre, it might be worth exploring why that is. That doesn’t mean one has to agree that controls are needed, but this notion that “well that’s just your problem, leave me alone” is an unhelpful attitude that does very little to illuminate the reality of the situation. The reality is that some people form a habitual/addictive relationship with cannabis. The reality is that cannabis severely disrupts REM sleep. The importance of REM sleep is a growing concern as we learn more about the process of sleep and how a lack of it predicts serious mental deterioration later in life. To be clear, I use cannabis regularly and find that it helps me deal with some aspects of C-PTSD. At the same time, I also find that it reduces the quality of my sleep. This is a tradeoff I accept because the alternative is less sleep overall, which is worse than the degraded sleep I’m getting now. But if I could otherwise sleep normally, adding cannabis to the mix is something I’d be more cautious about. The point behind that anecdote is simply that using cannabis involves tradeoffs. I don’t think access should be further controlled, but I do think education needs to be prioritized.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    >I strongly believe that cannabis should be legal, but also find it quite >problematic that many users and advocates will quickly bristle the moment the >downsides that many experience are described. >I think the horrific levels of injustice prior to legalization has had a >pendulum effect on conversations about safety and downsides. I think you hit the heart of the issue. The negatives have been used as a cudgel and amplified beyond reason over the years to block progress on legalization. It's create a knee jerk reaction to anyone who talks about their negative outcomes. (This isn't exclusive to MJ legalization. Try talking about quitting alcohol in a group setting over drinks. Something I had to do because I had negative outcomes with alcohol.) Very often these points are parroted by organizations that want to block legalization for reasons that have nothing to do with the issues of abuse or health, for example the Private Prison system which is one of the biggest lobbies against marijuana reform. While at the same time, society happily brushes aside the same concerns about alcohol which proportionately has worse side effects and outcomes. We also still sell cigarettes with glee for the tax dollars while they essentially have nothing but negative outcomes. People pay 8-10 dollars a day to murder themselves and cause undo excess cost and burden on healthcare but no one give a shit anymore. It's all so performative, inconsistent, and driven by capitalist motivations tangentially associated with the actual issue.
havblue 4y ago
David Foster Wallace talked and wrote extensively about marijuana addiction/withdrawal. A lot of responses to this tend to be if someone has a negative outcome they were prone to mental illness anyway and besides, it's not as bad as alcohol. I'm personally skeptical as to whether the negative outcomes with recreational, high potency weed are being quantified sufficiently and whether we're digging a hole for future generations.
somedude895 4y ago
I had the same experience. I fought with regular debilitating panic attacks and resulting anxiety for a year. It was horrible. That being said, I'm still for legalization, simply because it being illegal didn't keep me or you or anyone else from trying it. It just doesn't make sense for law enforcement to spend all those resources on fighting a battle that's already lost. Plus, in the US, all the lives ruined and money wasted on incarcerating people for marijuana-related offenses. I will say though, that legalisation leads to positive public health outcomes sounds like just the sort of bullshit cherrypicked study that Reddit would jump on instantly. I don't know why this is on HN at all.
gamblor956 4y ago
When I was a public defender representing the mentally disordered, literally all of my clients' mental disorders had been triggered by marijuana use. Cannabis (along with other psychoactive substances) is known to trigger latent mental disorders (like schizophrenia, etc.). This is one of the justifications given for continuing to keep it illegal at the federal level. This doesn't mean that marijuana causes mental disorders; it only triggers latent disorders, meaning those already present in the brain due to genetics, environment, or brain damage (caused by concussions, drug use, etc.). Other psychoactive substances (especially meth) can actually cause mental disorders due to the structural brain damage they inflict.
- notch898a 4y ago
  It's my understanding in some jurisdiction claiming a drug nexus makes you eligible for certain more attractive sentences or diversions, such as going to a treatment facility in lieu of jail. Could it be that some of your clients would have, say, benefitted from claiming a drug triggered nexus to take advantage of this?
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    No, the meme of "drug nexus" being a "get out of jail" card is just an internet meme. It only applies to drug possession or drug use cases (like intoxication). It doesn't apply to crimes where drug use is irrelevant to the charges (such as larceny), or a lesser charge (such as compared to assault,, etc.) For most of my clients, the cases were about whether they had mental disorders. And the consequence of being deemed to have a mental disorder that caused them to offend was involuntary commitment to a mental hospital for at least as long as their original prison sentence (and for violent offenders, theoretically for the rest of their lives).
    - notch898a 4y ago
      Ah damn. Is RDAP just a scam? I had thought for instance non-violent federal crimes are often eligible for reduced time, often even if they weren't drug crimes. (you're only eligible for this program if you had substance use) Federal law allows the BOP to reduce the sentences of non-violent offenders who complete the RDAP program by up to one year. The RDAP program is voluntary and takes 500-hours, nine- to twelve-months to complete. The RDAP is authorized by 18 U.S.C. § 3621, which directs the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) to provide residential substance abuse treatment for all eligible federal inmates. Guessing the feds just lie and don't actually take the time off then?. >only applies to drug possession or drug use cases Yeah but these are pretty common charges no? Seems relevant. For instance, my understanding is in some instances if you have a drug disorder with possession you're in a better position than merely found in possession and don't even use drugs (or use them without having a "disorder"), as the drug-nexus'd disorder might make you eligible for some programs. I gotta say I didn't realize these programs were just memes, must be a lot of attorneys lying to their clients.

whalesalad 4y ago

Live and let live.

jerrygenser 4y ago

> I still think it should be controlled medically and not as available as lotto tickets You could make the same argument for alcohol... it can destroy lives and yet is still legal.

valenaut 4y ago
Likewise for lotto tickets.
andersentobias 4y ago
I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. Cannabis on the other hand...
- bitcoin_anon 4y ago
  Have you ever been to a bar?
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Been to Oktoberfest. All of the Brit, Irish, Canadian and Australian members of the crew could not believe that much alcohol in one place without any barfights/disputes/blah. “This event wouldn’t be possible in Ireland”
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      I've been to Oktoberfest, too. My brother lived in Bavaria for a while. There were several fights, some blatant abuse of cocaine, and one of my female friends had someone get a hand down her pants and squeeze her butt without permission. No one got shot or stabbed, but it certainly wasn't a peaceful hangout.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Or literally any city at 2 AM on Saturday/Sunday
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  What is psychosis defined as, and how is it any worse than the effects of excess alcohol consumption? On 30+ years, I have never seen someone get violent from cannabis, but with alcohol, it is a regular occurrence. Worked at a hotel when I was younger too, and you can bring me a hotel full of people high on cannabis, and the worst they ever did was buy a ton of snacks. Alcohol, on the other hand, was responsible for noise complaints, broken televisions, furniture, sexual assault, violent assault, cops being called all the time, etc.
  - andersentobias 4y ago
    Look. Maybe I'm crazy, but being unable to control one's emotions is a much less severe condition than not being able to know what is real and what is not for the individual in question. As an aside, my father was an alcoholic and a pathetic loser indulging in as much alcohol as self-pity. I am not defending excessive alcohol consumption. My point is: Even if you think weed is relatively better than alcohol from a big picture societal POV (we can agree to disagree here), don't underestimate the bad effects of weed. Don't be a weed-smoking loser just because it's legal. You have one body. Take care of it.
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  I know that driving while high accidents happen, but I have never heard of anybody being ran over by a high driver. Alcohol on the other hand...
  - andersentobias 4y ago
    It would be interesting to see larger samples of weed smokers vs alcohol drinkers, and the effects of each. I guess all sample sizes of weed smokers are small in public health studies.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Because you've never seen it makes it so it never happened?
- riffic 4y ago
  you've never seen an angry drunk? you're very privileged.
- kentrado 4y ago
  Alcohol can literally kill you. Cannabis on the other hand will not.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  > I know that psychosis on alcohol happens, but I have never personally seen a person get psychotic from alcohol. I was a bartender for a while in college and off-and-on afterwards. I've seen dozens of barfights, several with people ending up in hospitals. No shootings, thankfully, but that absolutely happens outside of bars and clubs. There were at least 3 fatal DUIs that were traced back to coming from bars that I worked at; it led to the closure of one of them. Alcohol correlates directly to levels of domestic abuse, rape, assault, and murder. Most traffic accidents after 9pm are alcohol related. But weed makes you crazy and psychotic.
droopyEyelids 4y ago
The public health case for restrictive regulation of alcohol is actually much stronger than for marijuana
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Would the public health case be due to alcohol’s effects on others, or one’s self? If it is one’s self, then sugar, carbs, and sat fats are surely up there also. Although, one could define healthcare paid by other taxpayers as an effect on others, and that would encompass everything.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Drunk driving is a huge one. Meanwhile CDC hasn’t been able to create actual evidence that driving while high causes more accidents. https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/driving.html https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/driving.html I’m not saying it doesn’t but alcohol causes so many unnecessary deaths in society due to drunk driving. Note: I’m not advocating for alcohol to be banned.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Phone use while driving probably eclipses any other risk factor these days: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-03-14/deaths-broken-limbs-distracted-driving https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-03-14/deaths-bro... But I bet it would be very politically unpopular to address phone use while driving.
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        It isn't. My state is looking into making the penalties stronger and people are generally favorable for that because they still see people driving every day with their face glued to their phone. The only people against distracted driving penalties are people who are entitled and think they should be able to put others in danger for their minor convenience or libertarian assholes who think seatbelt laws are oppressive nanny stating.

xyzwave 4y ago

I could say the same thing about running, overdo it and you’ll hurt yourself. We don’t need gatekeepers to prescribe these things only when a legitimate medical use demands it. There are countless examples in society where we allow people do things that are dangerous purely for the fun of it. Just because these are drugs we don’t need to justify their use as medicines. Instead let’s inform the public and have them make their own choice. The regulation should be in proportion to the extent of the harm. In both cannabis use and running, it’s restricted to the individual (and temporary), so we should regulate minimally.

posterboy 4y ago
That's a slippery Sloap argument, and an absurd one. The benefits of running to the cardio vascular system are generally seen as a positive, contrary to smoking. The threshold to overdoing it is orders of magnitudes out of proportion. And there is no common opinion on psychological impairment from running, again in contrast to the psychadelica related substance abuse.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Running has a significant negative impact on your joint health since most people run with the wrong techniques.
- xyzwave 4y ago
  I don’t think this is a slippery slope [0], I’m only drawing a comparison. Additionally there are health benefits to cannabis (and psychedelics) as well. Whether it’s stress, anxiety (ironically), depression, etc. so the comparison remains apt. 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
  - posterboy 4y ago
    Here's a cthird comparandum for you. Breathing is rather beneficial for literally everybody and not doing it is very detrimental, actually fatal. How do you feel about the slippery slope now?

eurasiantiger 4y ago

Did you consume other drugs? Alcohol, coffee, tobacco?

9999px 4y ago

People will get defensive and kneejerk some vague response about how it doesn't affect _them_ that way (science!), but I agree 100% with you. It's a drug and it feels like it's being pushed on us these days by states and corporations.

sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
Can you elaborate on why you feel like it's being pushed on you? I've visited several US jurisdictions where it's legal. While it's still illegal in my area, I'm adjacent to fully legal and medically allowed areas. The only time I've felt any pressure was visiting Las Vegas, where every cab/uber/etc driver volunteered a recommendation for a pot store. I found the recommendations useful for knowing which stores are overpriced.
ashwagary 4y ago
>it feels like it's being pushed on us these days by states and corporations. We can say the same for every popular consumer product. I personally prefer people choosing what they consume over criminalizing the ?billions? of people that find it harmless.
gnulinux 4y ago
Are caffeine and alcohol also pushed by corporations? Alcohol is many many orders of magnitude more destructive and toxic than THC, do we really want to go back to prohibition days? Illegalized drugs do not work. Period. The solution to all drug problems is legalizing it. Yes, including crystal meth and heroin. The absolute worst a government can do for substance abuse is to ban addictive, toxic drugs, which makes them so much more destructive. The opposite is shown to work: https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7 https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...
- misja111 4y ago
  > The solution to all drug problems is legalizing it. Yes, including crystal meth and heroin There have been a few cases in the past were heroin use was allowed, or at least not actively prosecuted. They were absolute disasters. E.g. Zurich, 1986-1922: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8044118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8044118/

AlwaysRock 4y ago

I think this is more common than is really known at the moment. I had a similar experience. So have at least three other former regular users that I know. We've all stopped using almost entirely now. That being said, any drug when abused will have negative side effects. If marijuana is legal it will be easier to actually test, regulated, and provide guidelines for safe use. Everyone knows taking 6+ shots of some form of booze will likely cause you to be drunk. How much weed will cause you to be incapacitated? One puff? One joint? A dab? Half an edible? It's not clear. That feels like the real problem currently.

monetus 4y ago
Anxiety is being nailed down to fewer chemicals, as far as word of mouth goes - I have a friend who tries to increase the CBN to avoid anxiety.

gnulinux 4y ago

> [I personally abused something that's proven to be extremely helpful to millions of people, but because I had a uniquely bad experience with it, I vote for people having harder access to it.] I deeply apologize for saying this but what an absolutely bizarre opinion. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.

haswell 4y ago
Most people safely enjoy alcohol. No one is pushing a narrative that alcohol is universally healthy and safe, and pushing accounts of alcoholism and other forms of maladaptive use under the rug. Nor do we blame alcoholics for the genes that make them susceptible. I strongly believe that cannabis should be legal, but also find it quite problematic that many users and advocates will quickly bristle the moment the downsides that many experience are described. I think the horrific levels of injustice prior to legalization has had a pendulum effect on conversations about safety and downsides. If someone describing their own negative experiences and belief that those experiences warrant more controls is so bizarre, it might be worth exploring why that is. That doesn’t mean one has to agree that controls are needed, but this notion that “well that’s just your problem, leave me alone” is an unhelpful attitude that does very little to illuminate the reality of the situation. The reality is that some people form a habitual/addictive relationship with cannabis. The reality is that cannabis severely disrupts REM sleep. The importance of REM sleep is a growing concern as we learn more about the process of sleep and how a lack of it predicts serious mental deterioration later in life. To be clear, I use cannabis regularly and find that it helps me deal with some aspects of C-PTSD. At the same time, I also find that it reduces the quality of my sleep. This is a tradeoff I accept because the alternative is less sleep overall, which is worse than the degraded sleep I’m getting now. But if I could otherwise sleep normally, adding cannabis to the mix is something I’d be more cautious about. The point behind that anecdote is simply that using cannabis involves tradeoffs. I don’t think access should be further controlled, but I do think education needs to be prioritized.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  >I strongly believe that cannabis should be legal, but also find it quite >problematic that many users and advocates will quickly bristle the moment the >downsides that many experience are described. >I think the horrific levels of injustice prior to legalization has had a >pendulum effect on conversations about safety and downsides. I think you hit the heart of the issue. The negatives have been used as a cudgel and amplified beyond reason over the years to block progress on legalization. It's create a knee jerk reaction to anyone who talks about their negative outcomes. (This isn't exclusive to MJ legalization. Try talking about quitting alcohol in a group setting over drinks. Something I had to do because I had negative outcomes with alcohol.) Very often these points are parroted by organizations that want to block legalization for reasons that have nothing to do with the issues of abuse or health, for example the Private Prison system which is one of the biggest lobbies against marijuana reform. While at the same time, society happily brushes aside the same concerns about alcohol which proportionately has worse side effects and outcomes. We also still sell cigarettes with glee for the tax dollars while they essentially have nothing but negative outcomes. People pay 8-10 dollars a day to murder themselves and cause undo excess cost and burden on healthcare but no one give a shit anymore. It's all so performative, inconsistent, and driven by capitalist motivations tangentially associated with the actual issue.

havblue 4y ago

David Foster Wallace talked and wrote extensively about marijuana addiction/withdrawal. A lot of responses to this tend to be if someone has a negative outcome they were prone to mental illness anyway and besides, it's not as bad as alcohol. I'm personally skeptical as to whether the negative outcomes with recreational, high potency weed are being quantified sufficiently and whether we're digging a hole for future generations.

somedude895 4y ago

I had the same experience. I fought with regular debilitating panic attacks and resulting anxiety for a year. It was horrible. That being said, I'm still for legalization, simply because it being illegal didn't keep me or you or anyone else from trying it. It just doesn't make sense for law enforcement to spend all those resources on fighting a battle that's already lost. Plus, in the US, all the lives ruined and money wasted on incarcerating people for marijuana-related offenses. I will say though, that legalisation leads to positive public health outcomes sounds like just the sort of bullshit cherrypicked study that Reddit would jump on instantly. I don't know why this is on HN at all.

gamblor956 4y ago

When I was a public defender representing the mentally disordered, literally all of my clients' mental disorders had been triggered by marijuana use. Cannabis (along with other psychoactive substances) is known to trigger latent mental disorders (like schizophrenia, etc.). This is one of the justifications given for continuing to keep it illegal at the federal level. This doesn't mean that marijuana causes mental disorders; it only triggers latent disorders, meaning those already present in the brain due to genetics, environment, or brain damage (caused by concussions, drug use, etc.). Other psychoactive substances (especially meth) can actually cause mental disorders due to the structural brain damage they inflict.

notch898a 4y ago
It's my understanding in some jurisdiction claiming a drug nexus makes you eligible for certain more attractive sentences or diversions, such as going to a treatment facility in lieu of jail. Could it be that some of your clients would have, say, benefitted from claiming a drug triggered nexus to take advantage of this?
- gamblor956 4y ago
  No, the meme of "drug nexus" being a "get out of jail" card is just an internet meme. It only applies to drug possession or drug use cases (like intoxication). It doesn't apply to crimes where drug use is irrelevant to the charges (such as larceny), or a lesser charge (such as compared to assault,, etc.) For most of my clients, the cases were about whether they had mental disorders. And the consequence of being deemed to have a mental disorder that caused them to offend was involuntary commitment to a mental hospital for at least as long as their original prison sentence (and for violent offenders, theoretically for the rest of their lives).
  - notch898a 4y ago
    Ah damn. Is RDAP just a scam? I had thought for instance non-violent federal crimes are often eligible for reduced time, often even if they weren't drug crimes. (you're only eligible for this program if you had substance use) Federal law allows the BOP to reduce the sentences of non-violent offenders who complete the RDAP program by up to one year. The RDAP program is voluntary and takes 500-hours, nine- to twelve-months to complete. The RDAP is authorized by 18 U.S.C. § 3621, which directs the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) to provide residential substance abuse treatment for all eligible federal inmates. Guessing the feds just lie and don't actually take the time off then?. >only applies to drug possession or drug use cases Yeah but these are pretty common charges no? Seems relevant. For instance, my understanding is in some instances if you have a drug disorder with possession you're in a better position than merely found in possession and don't even use drugs (or use them without having a "disorder"), as the drug-nexus'd disorder might make you eligible for some programs. I gotta say I didn't realize these programs were just memes, must be a lot of attorneys lying to their clients.