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Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to

Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. 읍참마속(泣斬馬謖) ub cham ma sok To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. In the Romance of Three Kingdoms, Zhuge Liang had to behead his favourite general Ma Su as he wept because Ma Su ignored the given command resulting in losing the war. This is used when you have to be fair for the greater good. There are also fake yojijukugos which were created on online forums. These are not based on Chinese characters but made by taking letters from Korean phrases. But they caught on because they kinda sound like real yojijikugos :D 내로남불 nae ro nam bul Romance for me, but adultery for you. Used for people who are lenient to themselves but strict to others. 자강두천 ja gang doo cheon Fight of two strong-sprited geniuses. Used when two strong characters butt head with each other.

Dalewyn 4y ago
>Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) This is neither here nor there, but you have me in stitches for using Japanese to refer to Chinese sayings to describe Korean (sub)culture.
- creakingstairs 4y ago
  Haha, I did think about using the Korean word instead but just decided to go with the flow. East Asian culture is so intertwined, it's a pity we all have such a love-hate relationship with each other.
fenomas 4y ago
Here's another interesting one that gamers might recognize, JP-from-CN: > 竜頭蛇尾 (ryuutou dabi) "Dragon head, snake tail" Blizzard's Overwatch team decided that would make a cool family motto for a ninja clan, so it features prominently in the game's launch cinematic and some in-game areas. But they apparently never looked up the meaning, which is basically "starting strong but ending weak", or just "anticlimactic".
- sdwr 4y ago
  Huh, sounds a little like how Overwatch unfolded! Strong start, a lot of enthusiasm, now everybody's pretty much over it and the competitive scene is dying (?)
NalNezumi 4y ago
>위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Adding a little bit of context to this: This seems to be the same origin as the Japanese word baka: 馬鹿 which means stupid and is the combination of the word Horse（馬） and deer (鹿). It has a quite funny background story[1] from ancient China: >Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was a deer to be brought before the law. Thereafter the officials were all terrified of Zhao Gao. The English wiki is a bit kind to him, because in the original one it wasn't "put before the law" but killed/executed. So the "fool/stupid" person is not the one that called a deer a horse, but the ones that didn't [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baka_(Japanese_word) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baka_(Japanese_word)
- carapace 4y ago
  "Well, that explains a lot." Cheers!
- solarmist 4y ago
  This is the origin of the Japanese insult “baka” as well.
School-Cotton 4y ago
> To point at a deer and call it a horse. When indigenous Mexicans first met Spaniards, they described their horses (which are not native to the New World, so they had never seen before) as “a sort of giant deer”. It’s totally off-topic here but I always thought that was interesting.
- dmix 4y ago
  There were actually horses in the new world, it's just that the natives hunted them all to extinction well before the Europeans arrived. Likewise with most other "mega fuana" in North America. There's also theories that climate changes played a role in addition to over exploitation.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    True, but to be clear, they had gone extinct thousands of years before the Spanish brought them back, so the natives in the early 16th century had no way of knowing about them.
lelandfe 4y ago
> To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Love this. A good English equivalent is “the emperor’s new clothes.”
- bee_rider 4y ago
  References to the emperor’s new clothes seem to be focused on the moment when the lie everyone is going along with finally gets revealed, though. I think the English equivalent is more like “brown nosing.”
  - lelandfe 4y ago
    Brown nosing need not involve lying - you can be obsequious without agreeing to an obvious falsehood.
smaddox 4y ago
> To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. [...] I wonder how much further ahead of western cultures, eastern asian cultures would have been if they didn't kill (or commit suicide) every time someone made a mistake.
1123581321 4y ago
Ma Su is also relevant because Zhuge Liang was repeatedly warned that Ma Su had more head knowledge than ability so should not receive a major command. Zhuge Liang's emotions and admiration cost him not only the campaign, but a dear friend.
dxbydt 4y ago
> 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma > To point at a deer and call it a horse. Very common South Indian proverb. Of course, our version goes - To point at a donkey and call it a horse. I guess because donkeys are way more common than deer in South India. I'm curious about the etymology. Did it really originate in China ? If so, how come its so commonly used in South India ? The Chinese monks Faxian[1] and Xuanzang[2] visited India during the 5th/7th AD...the proverb came along with them ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxian [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang
- rawgabbit 4y ago
  The phrase comes from Sima Qian's "The Records of the Grand Historian" written in 94BCE. Zhao Gao was a eunuch and hid the first Emperor's death and schemed to have the rightful heir killed. Zhao installed a puppet and tested everyone's loyalty by declaring a stag a horse and dared anyone to question him. https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_5_chen.pdf https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_5_che...

Dalewyn 4y ago

>Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) This is neither here nor there, but you have me in stitches for using Japanese to refer to Chinese sayings to describe Korean (sub)culture.

creakingstairs 4y ago
Haha, I did think about using the Korean word instead but just decided to go with the flow. East Asian culture is so intertwined, it's a pity we all have such a love-hate relationship with each other.

fenomas 4y ago

Here's another interesting one that gamers might recognize, JP-from-CN: > 竜頭蛇尾 (ryuutou dabi) "Dragon head, snake tail" Blizzard's Overwatch team decided that would make a cool family motto for a ninja clan, so it features prominently in the game's launch cinematic and some in-game areas. But they apparently never looked up the meaning, which is basically "starting strong but ending weak", or just "anticlimactic".

sdwr 4y ago
Huh, sounds a little like how Overwatch unfolded! Strong start, a lot of enthusiasm, now everybody's pretty much over it and the competitive scene is dying (?)

NalNezumi 4y ago

>위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Adding a little bit of context to this: This seems to be the same origin as the Japanese word baka: 馬鹿 which means stupid and is the combination of the word Horse（馬） and deer (鹿). It has a quite funny background story[1] from ancient China: >Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but was afraid the other officials would not heed his commands, so he decided to test them first. He brought a deer and presented it to the Second Emperor but called it a horse. The Second Emperor laughed and said, "Is the chancellor perhaps mistaken, calling a deer a horse?" Then the emperor questioned those around him. Some remained silent, while some, hoping to ingratiate themselves with Zhao Gao, said it was a horse, and others said it was a deer. Zhao Gao secretly arranged for all those who said it was a deer to be brought before the law. Thereafter the officials were all terrified of Zhao Gao. The English wiki is a bit kind to him, because in the original one it wasn't "put before the law" but killed/executed. So the "fool/stupid" person is not the one that called a deer a horse, but the ones that didn't [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baka_(Japanese_word) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baka_(Japanese_word)

carapace 4y ago
"Well, that explains a lot." Cheers!
solarmist 4y ago
This is the origin of the Japanese insult “baka” as well.

School-Cotton 4y ago

> To point at a deer and call it a horse. When indigenous Mexicans first met Spaniards, they described their horses (which are not native to the New World, so they had never seen before) as “a sort of giant deer”. It’s totally off-topic here but I always thought that was interesting.

dmix 4y ago
There were actually horses in the new world, it's just that the natives hunted them all to extinction well before the Europeans arrived. Likewise with most other "mega fuana" in North America. There's also theories that climate changes played a role in addition to over exploitation.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  True, but to be clear, they had gone extinct thousands of years before the Spanish brought them back, so the natives in the early 16th century had no way of knowing about them.

lelandfe 4y ago

> To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Love this. A good English equivalent is “the emperor’s new clothes.”

bee_rider 4y ago
References to the emperor’s new clothes seem to be focused on the moment when the lie everyone is going along with finally gets revealed, though. I think the English equivalent is more like “brown nosing.”
- lelandfe 4y ago
  Brown nosing need not involve lying - you can be obsequious without agreeing to an obvious falsehood.

smaddox 4y ago

> To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. [...] I wonder how much further ahead of western cultures, eastern asian cultures would have been if they didn't kill (or commit suicide) every time someone made a mistake.

1123581321 4y ago

Ma Su is also relevant because Zhuge Liang was repeatedly warned that Ma Su had more head knowledge than ability so should not receive a major command. Zhuge Liang's emotions and admiration cost him not only the campaign, but a dear friend.

dxbydt 4y ago

> 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma > To point at a deer and call it a horse. Very common South Indian proverb. Of course, our version goes - To point at a donkey and call it a horse. I guess because donkeys are way more common than deer in South India. I'm curious about the etymology. Did it really originate in China ? If so, how come its so commonly used in South India ? The Chinese monks Faxian[1] and Xuanzang[2] visited India during the 5th/7th AD...the proverb came along with them ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxian [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang

rawgabbit 4y ago
The phrase comes from Sima Qian's "The Records of the Grand Historian" written in 94BCE. Zhao Gao was a eunuch and hid the first Emperor's death and schemed to have the rightful heir killed. Zhao installed a puppet and tested everyone's loyalty by declaring a stag a horse and dared anyone to question him. https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_5_chen.pdf https://cesnur.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/tjoc_6_4_5_che...