4 ms·

To me, that seems to break a law about people opening First Class Mail addressed to someone else. I thought doing that was a Federal Offense.

by jmclnx 4y ago

giantg2 4y ago
There's probably some obscure exception for government purposes. Or the government just won't prosecute if it interferes with their interests. Pretty common in all aspects really, even really simple stuff like off-duty cops not getting speeding tickets.
thecyborganizer 4y ago
Your state certainly has a law permitting letters sent to prisoners to be opened and inspected. Mine does: Incoming mail may be opened, inspected for contraband and read by authorized institutional staff within the guidelines set forth in this policy. - RI Department of Corrections policy 24.01-7, 1.4.1.B.2 (authorized by RI General Laws 42-56-1)
- sakras 4y ago
  I could be wrong, but doesn’t that violate the supremacy clause, since opening letters is a federal offense?
  - thecyborganizer 4y ago
    18 USC 1702 only applies if you are opening someone else's mail because you want to "obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another". Presumably the courts have determined that this does not apply to prison officials opening mail addressed to prisoners.
- jcadam 4y ago
  Parcels I can understand, but a letter? No.
ccooffee 4y ago
Under 18 U.S. Code § 1702[0], it would appear to be illegal on-its-face for USPS mail to be inspected by prison authorities. > Whoever takes any letter...before it has been delivered...with design...to pry...or opens...the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. However, there's certainly more to be said about this, as the ACLU's prisoner rights page[1] has this to say about mail in prison: > The First Amendment of the Constitution entitles prisoners to send and receive mail, but the prison or jail may inspect and sometimes censor it to protect security, using appropriate procedures. I've been unable to find any resources identifying under what statutory authority a prison may inspect mail, but I'm unfamiliar with legal stuff, so I think this is a "me-failure". I did find a 2021 article from The Intercept[3] which was informative on giving a similar-perspective, different-author from the submitted ACLU page. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 [1] https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/prisoners-rights#i-want-to-send-and-receive-mail-in-prison https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/prisoners-rights#i-wan... [2] https://theintercept.com/2021/09/26/surveillance-privacy-prisons-mail-scan/ https://theintercept.com/2021/09/26/surveillance-privacy-pri...
sbaiddn 4y ago
They're in jail, by definition they have a restricted set of constitutional rights (they are incarcerated, ie they are not free!) For example, they can't own firearms. It may seem obvious that a person in jail can't possesses a gun, but this is a very specific and enumerated right in the Bill of Rights! This right is so enshrined that it is not obvious that it can be restricted after being released. See for example ACB's jurisprudence. So, if even a person released from jail is denied an enumerated right of the Bill of Rights (2A), it stands to reason that many other rights, (especially ones not as obviously constitutionally mandated) are also forfeited whilst actually in jail as chosen by the legislators and agreed by the courts. Example: - Freedom against search w/out a warrant. Inmates' cells are searched without a warrant - Right to life. Capitol punishment is (unfortunately) legal and certainly constitutional. - Right to vote. Note some of these are partially retained whilst in prison, just not in prison itself. For example, the cops cant search your house w/out a warrant just because you're in jail. They also retain some rights, fully or partially - They retain their fifth - They partially retain their first (they can worship as they please, but their freedom of speech is restricted). - They obviously retain their right against "cruel and unusual punishment", since the amendment's purpose is for the incarcerated. Devil's in the details, unfortunately. - they even retail some right against search in jail, for example the police cant listen in to conversations with council. So when the prison guards search one's prison mail, it is quite legal because you lost one's constitutional right against being searched.
- 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
  As far as I know, the prohibition on opening someone else's mail (or interfering with delivery of the mail generally) is not based on the addressee's constitutional rights, but rather on an independent power granted to Congress by the Postal Clause. I assume there's some exemption to this for people in government custody, but I don't know exactly where it would be codified. > The postal powers of Congress embrace all measures necessary to insure the safe and speedy transit and prompt delivery of the mails. And not only are the mails under the protection of the National Government, they are, in contemplation of the law, its property. [1] [1] https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C7-2/ALDE_00000076/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C7-2/...

To me, that seems to break a law about people opening First Class Mail addressed to someone else. I thought doing that was a Federal Offense.

by jmclnx 4y ago

To me, that seems to break a law about people opening First Class Mail addressed to someone else. I thought doing that was a Federal Offense.

giantg2 4y ago

There's probably some obscure exception for government purposes. Or the government just won't prosecute if it interferes with their interests. Pretty common in all aspects really, even really simple stuff like off-duty cops not getting speeding tickets.

thecyborganizer 4y ago

Your state certainly has a law permitting letters sent to prisoners to be opened and inspected. Mine does: Incoming mail may be opened, inspected for contraband and read by authorized institutional staff within the guidelines set forth in this policy. - RI Department of Corrections policy 24.01-7, 1.4.1.B.2 (authorized by RI General Laws 42-56-1)

sakras 4y ago
I could be wrong, but doesn’t that violate the supremacy clause, since opening letters is a federal offense?
- thecyborganizer 4y ago
  18 USC 1702 only applies if you are opening someone else's mail because you want to "obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another". Presumably the courts have determined that this does not apply to prison officials opening mail addressed to prisoners.
jcadam 4y ago
Parcels I can understand, but a letter? No.

ccooffee 4y ago

Under 18 U.S. Code § 1702[0], it would appear to be illegal on-its-face for USPS mail to be inspected by prison authorities. > Whoever takes any letter...before it has been delivered...with design...to pry...or opens...the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. However, there's certainly more to be said about this, as the ACLU's prisoner rights page[1] has this to say about mail in prison: > The First Amendment of the Constitution entitles prisoners to send and receive mail, but the prison or jail may inspect and sometimes censor it to protect security, using appropriate procedures. I've been unable to find any resources identifying under what statutory authority a prison may inspect mail, but I'm unfamiliar with legal stuff, so I think this is a "me-failure". I did find a 2021 article from The Intercept[3] which was informative on giving a similar-perspective, different-author from the submitted ACLU page. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702 [1] https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/prisoners-rights#i-want-to-send-and-receive-mail-in-prison https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/prisoners-rights#i-wan... [2] https://theintercept.com/2021/09/26/surveillance-privacy-prisons-mail-scan/ https://theintercept.com/2021/09/26/surveillance-privacy-pri...

sbaiddn 4y ago

They're in jail, by definition they have a restricted set of constitutional rights (they are incarcerated, ie they are not free!) For example, they can't own firearms. It may seem obvious that a person in jail can't possesses a gun, but this is a very specific and enumerated right in the Bill of Rights! This right is so enshrined that it is not obvious that it can be restricted after being released. See for example ACB's jurisprudence. So, if even a person released from jail is denied an enumerated right of the Bill of Rights (2A), it stands to reason that many other rights, (especially ones not as obviously constitutionally mandated) are also forfeited whilst actually in jail as chosen by the legislators and agreed by the courts. Example: - Freedom against search w/out a warrant. Inmates' cells are searched without a warrant - Right to life. Capitol punishment is (unfortunately) legal and certainly constitutional. - Right to vote. Note some of these are partially retained whilst in prison, just not in prison itself. For example, the cops cant search your house w/out a warrant just because you're in jail. They also retain some rights, fully or partially - They retain their fifth - They partially retain their first (they can worship as they please, but their freedom of speech is restricted). - They obviously retain their right against "cruel and unusual punishment", since the amendment's purpose is for the incarcerated. Devil's in the details, unfortunately. - they even retail some right against search in jail, for example the police cant listen in to conversations with council. So when the prison guards search one's prison mail, it is quite legal because you lost one's constitutional right against being searched.

0xcde4c3db 4y ago
As far as I know, the prohibition on opening someone else's mail (or interfering with delivery of the mail generally) is not based on the addressee's constitutional rights, but rather on an independent power granted to Congress by the Postal Clause. I assume there's some exemption to this for people in government custody, but I don't know exactly where it would be codified. > The postal powers of Congress embrace all measures necessary to insure the safe and speedy transit and prompt delivery of the mails. And not only are the mails under the protection of the National Government, they are, in contemplation of the law, its property. [1] [1] https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C7-2/ALDE_00000076/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C7-2/...