8 ms·

The American Diet Has a Sandwich Problem

32 points by lxm 4y ago

sokoloff 4y ago
https://archive.is/5HpVD https://archive.is/5HpVD
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  Anyone getting 'your connection is not secure' when trying this page in firefox? There doesn't seem to be any sort of prompt to 'accept the risk and continue' either
  - ccooffee 4y ago
    No problems for me with Firefox 111.0 (64-bit). Upon clicking, I first went to a captcha page, then to the content. The lock icon merely offers me this information: > "You are securely connected to this page." > "Verified by: Let's Encrypt"
s_dev 4y ago
https://archive.is/5HpVD https://archive.is/5HpVD
rjh29 4y ago
> Twenty years later, a turkey sandwich contained about 820 calories. Not sure where they got those numbers from. Just for comparison - in England, where many people eat sandwiches every day, the range is more like 300-500 for a supermarket sandwich. The meat is processed, but chicken is a fairly popular option, and the bread is thinner and less sweet. Really the main takeaway is to reduce your bread. Carbs are terrible for diets, don't satiate you and most people eat too many. I treat baguettes and large subs as a treat the same way I'd treat a large slice of chocolate cake or ice cream - the bread part of a large sub can be as much as 500 calories by itself. As I got older I usually eat Warburtons 'Danish' bread which is 62 calories a slice, or buy a wrap or something. You could even skip the bread and just eat it with some veg as a salad. It will be just as satiating. And use half-fat mayo if you don't mind the taste.
- csours 4y ago
  > Carbs are terrible for diets Excess, over-processed carbs are terrible. The right amount of carbs from whole or minimally processed foods are just fine. Over-processed: white flour, refined or concentrated sugar, carb heavy snack foods, deserts, juiced or cooked fruit Minimally processed: cooked grains or potatoes, whole raw fruit
  - justinator 4y ago
    >Excess, over-processed carbs are terrible Correct - and for a lot of reasons, one of which is it's just so easy to each so much over-processed carbs without knowing it - satiety. It's just too easily leads to over-eating. Sugar (or HFCS) is snuck into everything these days, upping the carbs.
- orev 4y ago
  There’s a big misconception that wraps are somehow more healthy than bread. They’re more processed and have at least as many calories as bread does, despite often being presented as the healthier option.
  - rjh29 4y ago
    Wow, you're right about tortilla wraps (173 cals per tortilla - close to two slices of white bread which is 186). What I mean was stuff like this (100 cals): https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268319311 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268319311
  - bluedino 4y ago
    It's just compressed bread, or a tortilla (which definitely aren't low-calorie)
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Modern bread tastes like cake to me.
  - 4y ago
starkparker 4y ago
Nothing tortillas can't fix.
- korroziya 4y ago
  Can't tell if this is sarcastic. Hispanic communities suffer from large amounts of obesity, some due to genetic issues, but diet is an overwhelming factor. A proper tortilla has three ingredients: flour, lard and salt. Not exactly a staple in a slimming diet.
  - rjh29 4y ago
    Tortillas are low calorie (100-150 calories), most likely better for you than bread. I guess it depends how many you eat, and if they're fried.
    - zeruch 4y ago
      I think one reason might be that most tortillas in supermarkets are processed to death as well. Most won't go to a solid Mexican grocer and pick up the good stuff (or it's not available) and to top that off, one thing I've noticed outside of California at least, people double wrap small amounts of food in tortilla, instead of loading up, so they eat 2-4x more tortillas than 'normal' (I'm biased because I am in California and grew up here, we understand tortilla physics and tensile parameters, YMMV). Whether they are "better for you than bread" depends a whole hell of a lot on the bread, and how its made.
    - anthonypasq 4y ago
      ? They are made out of the exact same stuff. 2 slices of wonder bread has 140 calories.
      - rjh29 4y ago
        Yeah but the majority of bread is NOT 140 calories. In the UK there is literally one loaf of bread that small because they shrunk the size down and added air to it.
jplona 4y ago
> Since a soggy PB&J is unappealing, Dr. Roberto says it’s pretty easy to rein in the amount of sweet jam. “There’s a built-in mechanism against overjellying,” she says. “It’s a really nice type of sandwich.” The trick is to put peanut butter on both pieces of bread so it can't absorb the jam. Then you can put as much as you like :-).
- avidphantasm 4y ago
  Hard disagree. Soggy PB&J is excellent. Soggy PB and honey is even better.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    I used to make a bunch of PB&Js on Sunday, and take 2-3 with me for lunch every day. Later in the week they'd achieve this perfect ratio of jelly having soaked into the (toasted) bread. It was great. Yes, working long hours in construction causes one to adopt some strange habits.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    Honey and PB on sourdough toast is awesome
- bluedino 4y ago
  Triple deckers, jelly on both sides of the slice of bread in the middle, you'll get a 1cm layer of goodness by lunchtime when it has fully saturated the bread
paultopia 4y ago
Ugh, bad time to read that as I’m about to go to an office lunch where Italian sandwiches are being served.
- gffrd 4y ago
  Good luck with the rest of your afternoon …
jeffbee 4y ago
When I roast a chicken I save the breast for sandwiches, but there's a reason people don't make their sandwiches that way: processed meats are much cheaper. You might as well write an article that the American sandwich has a cost problem. Face it: the sandwich is a luxury food. Healthier things are often cheaper, too. The vegetable street taco at my nearest taco truck is almost a complete diet by itself, and it's the cheapest thing on the menu.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Aside from being cheaper I like the texture of processed chicken more, they are usually easier to eat and have herbs and spices infused in them. I try to avoid bacon, ham, beef and sausages and hopefully that's good enough!
- anthonypasq 4y ago
  in my experience deli meat is quite expensive. Turkey is like $10 a pound
nbaugh1 4y ago
I recently, unintentionally, stopped eating mostly sandwiches for lunch and started eating pre-prepped meals from a company that delivers them weekly. I'm down from ~195lbs to ~180lbs in a couple of months pretty much on accident
- owlninja 4y ago
  What company?
RandallBrown 4y ago
> Sandwiches are the number one source of sodium and saturated fat in Americans’ diets, making up about one-fifth of our daily sodium intake and 19% of our daily saturated fat calories 20% of sodium and saturated fat calories for a single meal doesn't really sound very alarming.
- polishdude20 4y ago
  Yeah, how many meals do people eat in a day anyways? Like max 5?
  - jeltz 4y ago
    I feel most people eat 3 so 20% does not sound alarming at all.
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  Yes but maybe Americans have high sodium and fat intake. The problem with a sandwich, and I love bread, is that it’s high in carbs, low in fibre and vitamins.
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    Can't use white bread, gotta go with whole grain. Throw a couple slices of turkey, a fist full of spinach, a few grape tomatoes and you've got a sandwich that's actually a worthwhile lunch and not a crushing disappointment
    - ashwagary 4y ago
      Use lettuce as the bun and ditch bread completely.
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  I have a hard time making sense of those stats. If it’s conditional on having had a sandwich that day, it’s totally reasonable. If it’s not, it seems extremely high. That would mean sandwiches carry 20% of the sodium the population eats, including days that people don’t eat sandwiches and people who don’t eat sandwiches at all.
natdempk 4y ago
Out of curiosity, what are popular lunch alternatives from other countries that are similarly quick and easy to sandwiches, but healthier? Would selfishly love some ideas to eat better lunches.
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  Salad bowls can be made arbitrarily hearty, and they have the nice property of being incremental. Whatever ingredients you have on hand can be tossed in: boiled eggs, sliced fruit, diced meat or salami, cubed cheese, etc. Alternatively, if you’re okay with hanging on to some carbs, rice bowls are similar. You can cook rice in bulk and then use that as the base for different types of bowls.
- legitster 4y ago
  Beans! You can cook them up in large batches, they take all sorts of flavors and ingredients well, and are very satisfying as a lunch.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Lettuce wrap? Increase the amount of meat (and cheese if you have the budget), wrap with lettuce, hold lettuce, get your munch on.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    do you have a recommended lettuce variety? Most of them crumble away before I can use them.
chasebank 4y ago
This article references salt consumption multiple times. I thought that was a myth of the past. Salt consumption has almost zero to do with blood pressure. IIRC, it's primarily based on eating more calories than one burns. As always, eat less, move more. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-t...
- legitster 4y ago
  There are at least some studies that link salt to increased appetite. Which shouldn't be a shock - eating tasty things makes you want to eat more. But in this case journalists like padding out lists of unhealthy ingredients.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  I'm actually curious about this: if that's true, why do hospitals still do low-salt diets for critical heart disease patients?
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    Because salt is fine for the normal person. Someone in the hospital with critical heart disease issues is not normal.
  - henry2023 4y ago
    Bad habits are hard to break
    - cactusplant7374 4y ago
      What if a diet high in salt is fine for healthy patients but dangerous for patients with heart disease? You can make the same argument for a diet high in sugar for healthy active individuals. It wouldn't be good for those with diabetes.
      - ashwagary 4y ago
legitster 4y ago
> Sandwiches have grown less healthy in the past 40 years, Dr. Mozaffarian says. Culprits include highly processed grains in bread and the low-fat push that took off in the 1980s, which nutritionists now say led to the consumption of more deli meats marketed as low-fat. Low-fat wasn't just a "push". Medical experts effectively lobbied the government to introduce dietary mandates at very high levels (like nutrition percentages) and on low levels (school lunches). The end result was carbs, carbs, carbs, cheap carbs. The glycemic index is probably one of the most underrated aspects for diet. It boggles my mind that the doctor at the end recommended a PB&J. Sure - in a complete vacuum it has fewer calories. But you are going to end up way hungrier and crankier calorie-for-calorie.
iamevn 4y ago
> Each serving a day of processed meat is associated with a 42% increased risk of heart disease and a 19% increased risk of diabetes The wording of this either is confusing or is a huge understatement. Does this mean that eating a serving a day for some time period correlates with a huge increase in heart disease and diabetes or, read literally, that each day you eat a serving of processed meat correlates to a huge increased risk (which would further increase across more days)?
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  The explanation that would make sense to me is y = x ^ 1.42 Where x is the average number of servings of processed meat per day and y is the annualized risk of death due to heart disease.
henry2023 4y ago
The problem: refined sugars, refined flours, seed oils The solution: eat less sodium and less saturated fats (which by the way were consumed in greater quantities in the past and hearth disease was virtually non existent)
KerryJones 4y ago
This is strange to callout "saturated fats" as one of the primary issues, therefore "eat less bread". I generate, I agree that eating less bread is important (in general), specifically white bread, but the idea that "saturated fat" is bad is old and many studies in the last decade have actually reversed this opinion. The entire rise of keto diet is based on having as much saturated fat as possible, and to stay away from polyunsaturated (and only go to monounsaturated if possible). More data in: https://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-audiobook/dp/B00JXQQTE8/ https://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-audiobook/dp/B00...
- leobabauta 4y ago
  That book is pseudoscience. As are a lot of the books and videos promoting high fat diets. We don’t need to be afraid of fat, but replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats has been shown to lead to better heart health outcomes by gold standard studies and meta reviews.
  - KerryJones 4y ago
    I appreciate that you have an alternate opinion. I've gone through quite a few studies myself as well as other doctors say the contrary. Rather than just "saying you're wrong, I'm wrong", can you the gold-standard studies you're claiming? Also not sure what about the book is "pseudoscience", can you name specific aspects in that make it pseudoscience? (it actually doesn't recommend anything... so curious how it's pseudoscience)
spandrew 4y ago
God I really hate these "war on x food" articles. CARBS MUST DIE. SUGAR MUST DIE. FAT MUST DIE. Well no, most adult bodies are pretty good at dealing with most of those. Bread is fine much like most other foods. If you eat 2500 calories a day of broccoli you will gain weight. From broccoli. American portion sizes being out of control is a problem. If you want to lose weight you can by all means order a sandwich. But if it's a honker then save half for lunch tomorrow, too. Two delicious meals for the price of one, and no pressured anxiety around ordering something you love to eat.
- debacle 4y ago
  2500 calories of broccoli is approx 3 gallons. From broccoli.
- dbg31415 4y ago
  It would be about 45 cups of broccoli.
- rjh29 4y ago
  > Well no, most adult bodies are pretty good at dealing with most of those. I mean, they aren't, that's why people get addicted to sugar and overeat ridiculously. Maybe the body can handle it but the brain can't, right? UK portion sizes are nothing like the US and our obesity rate still sucks. People are going to keep drinking sugary drinks and eating chocolate and chips and cookies, getting drunk every weekend and ordering a kebab at 3am.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Maybe the body can handle it but the brain can't, right? The brain is part of the body.
  - spandrew 4y ago
    The study is saying carbs or bread have an adverse influence on health. But that's false. It's creating anxiety about a loaf of bread that is patently idiotic. Eat a reasonable amount of bread and your body is fine. The human body is really great at adapting dietarily in most healthy humans. Weight is only one dimension of health.
MKGoogle 4y ago
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bravura 4y ago
[flagged]
ravenstine 4y ago
The article immediately lost credibility the moment it mentioned sodium as being harmful. Sodium is an important nutrient that's extremely difficult to over-consume under normal kidney function and when not hijacked by other satiety pathways. Even saturated fat isn't a problem. Neither of those things are a problem when consumed absent exogenous carbohydrates. > “The standard deli sandwich with processed meat and cheese, you’re literally eating a heart bomb,” says Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and professor of nutrition and medicine at Tufts University. Rubbish. Neither of those things are a "heart bomb." We can debate whether they should be eaten, but that's dishonest hyperbole. > Sandwiches contribute 7% of daily added sugars, the same percentage as breakfast cereals and bars. Added sugar isn't that relevant. When you consume bread, those carbohydrates are converted into glucose anyway. > Excess sodium increases blood pressure, which raises the risk of heart disease and stroke. Define excess. > People also eat an extra nearly 100 calories on the days they eat sandwiches, Calories are a unit of heat. The human body doesn't have a calorie counter. It's an electrochemical system that responds to mass with hormones. 100 "calories" is so trivial here it's laughable. Good luck measuring to the degree of hundreds of calories. The average person doesn't have adequate tools to do this, nor would it even be worthwhile in the first place. > Our sandwiches weren’t always this bad for us. The bread in a sandwich is not good for you at all. Doesn't matter how much fiber you leave in it. > Each serving a day of processed meat is associated with a 42% increased risk of heart disease and a 19% increased risk of diabetes, according to a review of research co-authored by Dr. Mozaffarian and published in the journal Circulation in 2010. More recent research has found similar results. Eating processed meats has also been linked to an increased risk of certain types of cancer. Processed meat may not be a good thing. However, this is not "risk." It's an association with heart disease, diabetes, etc. Not the "risk" of either. Risk requires cause and effect. > Be sparing with mustard [...] who calls them “salt vehicles.” Horseshit. There's no reason for a healthy person to avoid mustard other than that it's not required nutritionally. A squirt of mustard on your sandwich is an absolutely trivial amount of sodium. > Ketchup is often high in added sugars, too. Yeah, it's high in sugar. But then again, why eat bread if that's going to raise your blood glucose more than a squirt of ketchup? > Load your sandwich with tomato, lettuce and other vegetables for fiber and important nutrients. You don't need to eat any of those, and there's especially no reason to eat leaves. > Peanut butter has protein and healthy fats that keep you full. It's also usually full of added sugar, unless you go out of your way to get sugar-free peanut butter, which is often hard to find. > Choose jam low in added sugar, too; it’s even better if you can see chunks of whole fruit. A nutritionist shouldn't be recommending to eat jam or jelly of any kind.
bluedino 4y ago
2 slices of white bread is about 180 calories 1 tbsp of mayo is 90 calories Oscar Meyer sliced turkey is 45 calories, let's double that and make it 90 Total of 360 calories. Seems perfectly reasonable. 20oz soft drink is 250 calories, 1-3/4 oz bag of Doritos is 260, this adds 510 calories, for a total of 870 The problem is fast food. Head over to Arby's, and the Marketfresh Roast Turkey Ranch & Bacon Sandwich is 800 calories. We'll skip the soft drink and fries.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Prediction before reading to test myself: Whole grain all the things. Oats or rye where possible for more beta-glukans(clinically proven to lower LDL). Multi-grain is ideal. Use lean meats or fish. Don't sweat it about the dairy. Dairy fat is surprisingly good compared to fats from meat due to the high proportion of the saturated fat that's made up of short or medium chain fatty acids. These don't affect cholesterol and may even improve HDL/LDL ratio on their own. If you throw some pesto on there you get even more healthy fats from the olive oil and choice of nuts in the pesto, as well as a nice little splash of green from basil. Add some salad if you want more greens. Here's my recipe for an absolutely delicious, and yet healthy and wholesome sammich based on all this. Multigrain whole grain bread. Pesto, premade or homemade with a nut of your choosing. I really like pistachio or cashew for homemade pesto though it's far too pricey to do every day. Mostly I just use the barilla stuff. Pre-heated chicken breast, with ehatever spices you like. A full fat cheese of your liking. My favourites include real buffalo mozzarella(luxury choice) and Jarlsberg(day to day). Add salad or other veg to your liking, or omit. Heat in a panini press and enjoy. Edit after reading: yeah pretty much, though I think they left out some crucial details on how fats work that a lot of people are miseducated about.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Do you find wholegrain bread is more filling / less sleep-inducing than white? I don't find there to be a huge difference personally, especially compared to just reducing how much bread I eat. (Same with rice) Jarlsberg is delicious!
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Absolutely. White bread spikes your blood sugar much faster because it's almost pure starch. The resulting drop can definitely be sleep inducing in my experience. Whole grain bread also has a lot more protein, which is also more filling. But can also be more sleep inducing. The topic of post-prandial somnolence is a complicated one indeed. All sorts of hormonal, blood sugar, psychoactives in some foods, factors involved. And still poorly understood in many ways. Sort of related: if I eat any amount of white bread or other processed grains I tend to get a lot of abdominal pain. I have a bunch of scar tissue down there due to appendicitis with bad complications many years ago. Whole grains help keep me pain free, it's the only consistent remedy I've found. Do you live outside Norway? Is Jarlsberg expensive as an imported product? It's pretty affordable here so I might be amiss in listing it as the cheap option.
jmuguy 4y ago
I hope whoever was making the sandwiches used in that article has never actually eaten a sandwich, particularly that first one.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
No one's brought up keto bread?
- PenguinCoder 4y ago
  Keto bread is an abomination and a horrible food to subject yourself to.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    What do you mean? I've bought sola bread in the past and it... functioned exactly as bread in a sandwich. I just preferred larger sourdough slices so I stopped but it functioned the exact same as bread.
kazinator 4y ago
"Too much sodium" has been debunked years ago. It's completely unimportant except to some select hypertensive individuals who have a sensitivity to it. Variation in sodium intake has only a very small effect on blood pressure in normal individuals. I remember reading in Japan's guidelines allow up to 12 grams of salt daily for adult males (4800 mg sodium) who do manual work (i.e. sweat). The document on this site: https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guidelines/regions/countries/japan/en/ https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guideli... recommends a broad limit of 10 g of salt (4000 mg) per day, claiming that the average consumption in Japan is 12.7 g (based on some pretty dated 1998 study). (Unfortunately, the document pays lip service to the same misconceptions: too much salt causes high blood pressure---and stomach cancer, to boot.) The recommendation is still way above the USDA's crazy figure of 2300 mg. Anyway, pick a country that isn't generally stupid/corrupt about food and health, and use their recommendations.

32 points by lxm 4y ago

sokoloff 4y ago

https://archive.is/5HpVD https://archive.is/5HpVD

wing-_-nuts 4y ago
Anyone getting 'your connection is not secure' when trying this page in firefox? There doesn't seem to be any sort of prompt to 'accept the risk and continue' either
- ccooffee 4y ago
  No problems for me with Firefox 111.0 (64-bit). Upon clicking, I first went to a captcha page, then to the content. The lock icon merely offers me this information: > "You are securely connected to this page." > "Verified by: Let's Encrypt"

s_dev 4y ago

https://archive.is/5HpVD https://archive.is/5HpVD

rjh29 4y ago

> Twenty years later, a turkey sandwich contained about 820 calories. Not sure where they got those numbers from. Just for comparison - in England, where many people eat sandwiches every day, the range is more like 300-500 for a supermarket sandwich. The meat is processed, but chicken is a fairly popular option, and the bread is thinner and less sweet. Really the main takeaway is to reduce your bread. Carbs are terrible for diets, don't satiate you and most people eat too many. I treat baguettes and large subs as a treat the same way I'd treat a large slice of chocolate cake or ice cream - the bread part of a large sub can be as much as 500 calories by itself. As I got older I usually eat Warburtons 'Danish' bread which is 62 calories a slice, or buy a wrap or something. You could even skip the bread and just eat it with some veg as a salad. It will be just as satiating. And use half-fat mayo if you don't mind the taste.

csours 4y ago
> Carbs are terrible for diets Excess, over-processed carbs are terrible. The right amount of carbs from whole or minimally processed foods are just fine. Over-processed: white flour, refined or concentrated sugar, carb heavy snack foods, deserts, juiced or cooked fruit Minimally processed: cooked grains or potatoes, whole raw fruit
- justinator 4y ago
  >Excess, over-processed carbs are terrible Correct - and for a lot of reasons, one of which is it's just so easy to each so much over-processed carbs without knowing it - satiety. It's just too easily leads to over-eating. Sugar (or HFCS) is snuck into everything these days, upping the carbs.
orev 4y ago
There’s a big misconception that wraps are somehow more healthy than bread. They’re more processed and have at least as many calories as bread does, despite often being presented as the healthier option.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Wow, you're right about tortilla wraps (173 cals per tortilla - close to two slices of white bread which is 186). What I mean was stuff like this (100 cals): https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268319311 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268319311
- bluedino 4y ago
  It's just compressed bread, or a tortilla (which definitely aren't low-calorie)
WalterBright 4y ago
Modern bread tastes like cake to me.
- 4y ago

starkparker 4y ago

Nothing tortillas can't fix.

korroziya 4y ago
Can't tell if this is sarcastic. Hispanic communities suffer from large amounts of obesity, some due to genetic issues, but diet is an overwhelming factor. A proper tortilla has three ingredients: flour, lard and salt. Not exactly a staple in a slimming diet.
- rjh29 4y ago
  Tortillas are low calorie (100-150 calories), most likely better for you than bread. I guess it depends how many you eat, and if they're fried.
  - zeruch 4y ago
    I think one reason might be that most tortillas in supermarkets are processed to death as well. Most won't go to a solid Mexican grocer and pick up the good stuff (or it's not available) and to top that off, one thing I've noticed outside of California at least, people double wrap small amounts of food in tortilla, instead of loading up, so they eat 2-4x more tortillas than 'normal' (I'm biased because I am in California and grew up here, we understand tortilla physics and tensile parameters, YMMV). Whether they are "better for you than bread" depends a whole hell of a lot on the bread, and how its made.
  - anthonypasq 4y ago
    ? They are made out of the exact same stuff. 2 slices of wonder bread has 140 calories.
    - rjh29 4y ago
      Yeah but the majority of bread is NOT 140 calories. In the UK there is literally one loaf of bread that small because they shrunk the size down and added air to it.

jplona 4y ago

> Since a soggy PB&J is unappealing, Dr. Roberto says it’s pretty easy to rein in the amount of sweet jam. “There’s a built-in mechanism against overjellying,” she says. “It’s a really nice type of sandwich.” The trick is to put peanut butter on both pieces of bread so it can't absorb the jam. Then you can put as much as you like :-).

avidphantasm 4y ago
Hard disagree. Soggy PB&J is excellent. Soggy PB and honey is even better.
- Arrath 4y ago
  I used to make a bunch of PB&Js on Sunday, and take 2-3 with me for lunch every day. Later in the week they'd achieve this perfect ratio of jelly having soaked into the (toasted) bread. It was great. Yes, working long hours in construction causes one to adopt some strange habits.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Honey and PB on sourdough toast is awesome
bluedino 4y ago
Triple deckers, jelly on both sides of the slice of bread in the middle, you'll get a 1cm layer of goodness by lunchtime when it has fully saturated the bread

paultopia 4y ago

Ugh, bad time to read that as I’m about to go to an office lunch where Italian sandwiches are being served.

gffrd 4y ago
Good luck with the rest of your afternoon …

jeffbee 4y ago

When I roast a chicken I save the breast for sandwiches, but there's a reason people don't make their sandwiches that way: processed meats are much cheaper. You might as well write an article that the American sandwich has a cost problem. Face it: the sandwich is a luxury food. Healthier things are often cheaper, too. The vegetable street taco at my nearest taco truck is almost a complete diet by itself, and it's the cheapest thing on the menu.

rjh29 4y ago
Aside from being cheaper I like the texture of processed chicken more, they are usually easier to eat and have herbs and spices infused in them. I try to avoid bacon, ham, beef and sausages and hopefully that's good enough!
anthonypasq 4y ago
in my experience deli meat is quite expensive. Turkey is like $10 a pound

nbaugh1 4y ago

I recently, unintentionally, stopped eating mostly sandwiches for lunch and started eating pre-prepped meals from a company that delivers them weekly. I'm down from ~195lbs to ~180lbs in a couple of months pretty much on accident

owlninja 4y ago
What company?

RandallBrown 4y ago

> Sandwiches are the number one source of sodium and saturated fat in Americans’ diets, making up about one-fifth of our daily sodium intake and 19% of our daily saturated fat calories 20% of sodium and saturated fat calories for a single meal doesn't really sound very alarming.

polishdude20 4y ago
Yeah, how many meals do people eat in a day anyways? Like max 5?
- jeltz 4y ago
  I feel most people eat 3 so 20% does not sound alarming at all.
Synaesthesia 4y ago
Yes but maybe Americans have high sodium and fat intake. The problem with a sandwich, and I love bread, is that it’s high in carbs, low in fibre and vitamins.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  Can't use white bread, gotta go with whole grain. Throw a couple slices of turkey, a fist full of spinach, a few grape tomatoes and you've got a sandwich that's actually a worthwhile lunch and not a crushing disappointment
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    Use lettuce as the bun and ditch bread completely.
travisjungroth 4y ago
I have a hard time making sense of those stats. If it’s conditional on having had a sandwich that day, it’s totally reasonable. If it’s not, it seems extremely high. That would mean sandwiches carry 20% of the sodium the population eats, including days that people don’t eat sandwiches and people who don’t eat sandwiches at all.

natdempk 4y ago

Out of curiosity, what are popular lunch alternatives from other countries that are similarly quick and easy to sandwiches, but healthier? Would selfishly love some ideas to eat better lunches.

kevinventullo 4y ago
Salad bowls can be made arbitrarily hearty, and they have the nice property of being incremental. Whatever ingredients you have on hand can be tossed in: boiled eggs, sliced fruit, diced meat or salami, cubed cheese, etc. Alternatively, if you’re okay with hanging on to some carbs, rice bowls are similar. You can cook rice in bulk and then use that as the base for different types of bowls.
legitster 4y ago
Beans! You can cook them up in large batches, they take all sorts of flavors and ingredients well, and are very satisfying as a lunch.
rjh29 4y ago
Lettuce wrap? Increase the amount of meat (and cheese if you have the budget), wrap with lettuce, hold lettuce, get your munch on.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  do you have a recommended lettuce variety? Most of them crumble away before I can use them.

chasebank 4y ago

This article references salt consumption multiple times. I thought that was a myth of the past. Salt consumption has almost zero to do with blood pressure. IIRC, it's primarily based on eating more calories than one burns. As always, eat less, move more. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-t...

legitster 4y ago
There are at least some studies that link salt to increased appetite. Which shouldn't be a shock - eating tasty things makes you want to eat more. But in this case journalists like padding out lists of unhealthy ingredients.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
I'm actually curious about this: if that's true, why do hospitals still do low-salt diets for critical heart disease patients?
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  Because salt is fine for the normal person. Someone in the hospital with critical heart disease issues is not normal.
- henry2023 4y ago
  Bad habits are hard to break
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    What if a diet high in salt is fine for healthy patients but dangerous for patients with heart disease? You can make the same argument for a diet high in sugar for healthy active individuals. It wouldn't be good for those with diabetes.
    - ashwagary 4y ago

legitster 4y ago

> Sandwiches have grown less healthy in the past 40 years, Dr. Mozaffarian says. Culprits include highly processed grains in bread and the low-fat push that took off in the 1980s, which nutritionists now say led to the consumption of more deli meats marketed as low-fat. Low-fat wasn't just a "push". Medical experts effectively lobbied the government to introduce dietary mandates at very high levels (like nutrition percentages) and on low levels (school lunches). The end result was carbs, carbs, carbs, cheap carbs. The glycemic index is probably one of the most underrated aspects for diet. It boggles my mind that the doctor at the end recommended a PB&J. Sure - in a complete vacuum it has fewer calories. But you are going to end up way hungrier and crankier calorie-for-calorie.

iamevn 4y ago

> Each serving a day of processed meat is associated with a 42% increased risk of heart disease and a 19% increased risk of diabetes The wording of this either is confusing or is a huge understatement. Does this mean that eating a serving a day for some time period correlates with a huge increase in heart disease and diabetes or, read literally, that each day you eat a serving of processed meat correlates to a huge increased risk (which would further increase across more days)?

travisjungroth 4y ago
The explanation that would make sense to me is y = x ^ 1.42 Where x is the average number of servings of processed meat per day and y is the annualized risk of death due to heart disease.

henry2023 4y ago

The problem: refined sugars, refined flours, seed oils The solution: eat less sodium and less saturated fats (which by the way were consumed in greater quantities in the past and hearth disease was virtually non existent)

KerryJones 4y ago

This is strange to callout "saturated fats" as one of the primary issues, therefore "eat less bread". I generate, I agree that eating less bread is important (in general), specifically white bread, but the idea that "saturated fat" is bad is old and many studies in the last decade have actually reversed this opinion. The entire rise of keto diet is based on having as much saturated fat as possible, and to stay away from polyunsaturated (and only go to monounsaturated if possible). More data in: https://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-audiobook/dp/B00JXQQTE8/ https://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-audiobook/dp/B00...

leobabauta 4y ago
That book is pseudoscience. As are a lot of the books and videos promoting high fat diets. We don’t need to be afraid of fat, but replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats has been shown to lead to better heart health outcomes by gold standard studies and meta reviews.
- KerryJones 4y ago
  I appreciate that you have an alternate opinion. I've gone through quite a few studies myself as well as other doctors say the contrary. Rather than just "saying you're wrong, I'm wrong", can you the gold-standard studies you're claiming? Also not sure what about the book is "pseudoscience", can you name specific aspects in that make it pseudoscience? (it actually doesn't recommend anything... so curious how it's pseudoscience)

spandrew 4y ago

God I really hate these "war on x food" articles. CARBS MUST DIE. SUGAR MUST DIE. FAT MUST DIE. Well no, most adult bodies are pretty good at dealing with most of those. Bread is fine much like most other foods. If you eat 2500 calories a day of broccoli you will gain weight. From broccoli. American portion sizes being out of control is a problem. If you want to lose weight you can by all means order a sandwich. But if it's a honker then save half for lunch tomorrow, too. Two delicious meals for the price of one, and no pressured anxiety around ordering something you love to eat.

debacle 4y ago
2500 calories of broccoli is approx 3 gallons. From broccoli.
dbg31415 4y ago
It would be about 45 cups of broccoli.
rjh29 4y ago
> Well no, most adult bodies are pretty good at dealing with most of those. I mean, they aren't, that's why people get addicted to sugar and overeat ridiculously. Maybe the body can handle it but the brain can't, right? UK portion sizes are nothing like the US and our obesity rate still sucks. People are going to keep drinking sugary drinks and eating chocolate and chips and cookies, getting drunk every weekend and ordering a kebab at 3am.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Maybe the body can handle it but the brain can't, right? The brain is part of the body.
- spandrew 4y ago
  The study is saying carbs or bread have an adverse influence on health. But that's false. It's creating anxiety about a loaf of bread that is patently idiotic. Eat a reasonable amount of bread and your body is fine. The human body is really great at adapting dietarily in most healthy humans. Weight is only one dimension of health.

MKGoogle 4y ago

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bravura 4y ago

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ravenstine 4y ago

The article immediately lost credibility the moment it mentioned sodium as being harmful. Sodium is an important nutrient that's extremely difficult to over-consume under normal kidney function and when not hijacked by other satiety pathways. Even saturated fat isn't a problem. Neither of those things are a problem when consumed absent exogenous carbohydrates. > “The standard deli sandwich with processed meat and cheese, you’re literally eating a heart bomb,” says Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist and professor of nutrition and medicine at Tufts University. Rubbish. Neither of those things are a "heart bomb." We can debate whether they should be eaten, but that's dishonest hyperbole. > Sandwiches contribute 7% of daily added sugars, the same percentage as breakfast cereals and bars. Added sugar isn't that relevant. When you consume bread, those carbohydrates are converted into glucose anyway. > Excess sodium increases blood pressure, which raises the risk of heart disease and stroke. Define excess. > People also eat an extra nearly 100 calories on the days they eat sandwiches, Calories are a unit of heat. The human body doesn't have a calorie counter. It's an electrochemical system that responds to mass with hormones. 100 "calories" is so trivial here it's laughable. Good luck measuring to the degree of hundreds of calories. The average person doesn't have adequate tools to do this, nor would it even be worthwhile in the first place. > Our sandwiches weren’t always this bad for us. The bread in a sandwich is not good for you at all. Doesn't matter how much fiber you leave in it. > Each serving a day of processed meat is associated with a 42% increased risk of heart disease and a 19% increased risk of diabetes, according to a review of research co-authored by Dr. Mozaffarian and published in the journal Circulation in 2010. More recent research has found similar results. Eating processed meats has also been linked to an increased risk of certain types of cancer. Processed meat may not be a good thing. However, this is not "risk." It's an association with heart disease, diabetes, etc. Not the "risk" of either. Risk requires cause and effect. > Be sparing with mustard [...] who calls them “salt vehicles.” Horseshit. There's no reason for a healthy person to avoid mustard other than that it's not required nutritionally. A squirt of mustard on your sandwich is an absolutely trivial amount of sodium. > Ketchup is often high in added sugars, too. Yeah, it's high in sugar. But then again, why eat bread if that's going to raise your blood glucose more than a squirt of ketchup? > Load your sandwich with tomato, lettuce and other vegetables for fiber and important nutrients. You don't need to eat any of those, and there's especially no reason to eat leaves. > Peanut butter has protein and healthy fats that keep you full. It's also usually full of added sugar, unless you go out of your way to get sugar-free peanut butter, which is often hard to find. > Choose jam low in added sugar, too; it’s even better if you can see chunks of whole fruit. A nutritionist shouldn't be recommending to eat jam or jelly of any kind.

bluedino 4y ago

2 slices of white bread is about 180 calories 1 tbsp of mayo is 90 calories Oscar Meyer sliced turkey is 45 calories, let's double that and make it 90 Total of 360 calories. Seems perfectly reasonable. 20oz soft drink is 250 calories, 1-3/4 oz bag of Doritos is 260, this adds 510 calories, for a total of 870 The problem is fast food. Head over to Arby's, and the Marketfresh Roast Turkey Ranch & Bacon Sandwich is 800 calories. We'll skip the soft drink and fries.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

Prediction before reading to test myself: Whole grain all the things. Oats or rye where possible for more beta-glukans(clinically proven to lower LDL). Multi-grain is ideal. Use lean meats or fish. Don't sweat it about the dairy. Dairy fat is surprisingly good compared to fats from meat due to the high proportion of the saturated fat that's made up of short or medium chain fatty acids. These don't affect cholesterol and may even improve HDL/LDL ratio on their own. If you throw some pesto on there you get even more healthy fats from the olive oil and choice of nuts in the pesto, as well as a nice little splash of green from basil. Add some salad if you want more greens. Here's my recipe for an absolutely delicious, and yet healthy and wholesome sammich based on all this. Multigrain whole grain bread. Pesto, premade or homemade with a nut of your choosing. I really like pistachio or cashew for homemade pesto though it's far too pricey to do every day. Mostly I just use the barilla stuff. Pre-heated chicken breast, with ehatever spices you like. A full fat cheese of your liking. My favourites include real buffalo mozzarella(luxury choice) and Jarlsberg(day to day). Add salad or other veg to your liking, or omit. Heat in a panini press and enjoy. Edit after reading: yeah pretty much, though I think they left out some crucial details on how fats work that a lot of people are miseducated about.

rjh29 4y ago
Do you find wholegrain bread is more filling / less sleep-inducing than white? I don't find there to be a huge difference personally, especially compared to just reducing how much bread I eat. (Same with rice) Jarlsberg is delicious!
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Absolutely. White bread spikes your blood sugar much faster because it's almost pure starch. The resulting drop can definitely be sleep inducing in my experience. Whole grain bread also has a lot more protein, which is also more filling. But can also be more sleep inducing. The topic of post-prandial somnolence is a complicated one indeed. All sorts of hormonal, blood sugar, psychoactives in some foods, factors involved. And still poorly understood in many ways. Sort of related: if I eat any amount of white bread or other processed grains I tend to get a lot of abdominal pain. I have a bunch of scar tissue down there due to appendicitis with bad complications many years ago. Whole grains help keep me pain free, it's the only consistent remedy I've found. Do you live outside Norway? Is Jarlsberg expensive as an imported product? It's pretty affordable here so I might be amiss in listing it as the cheap option.

jmuguy 4y ago

I hope whoever was making the sandwiches used in that article has never actually eaten a sandwich, particularly that first one.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

No one's brought up keto bread?

PenguinCoder 4y ago
Keto bread is an abomination and a horrible food to subject yourself to.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  What do you mean? I've bought sola bread in the past and it... functioned exactly as bread in a sandwich. I just preferred larger sourdough slices so I stopped but it functioned the exact same as bread.

kazinator 4y ago

"Too much sodium" has been debunked years ago. It's completely unimportant except to some select hypertensive individuals who have a sensitivity to it. Variation in sodium intake has only a very small effect on blood pressure in normal individuals. I remember reading in Japan's guidelines allow up to 12 grams of salt daily for adult males (4800 mg sodium) who do manual work (i.e. sweat). The document on this site: https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guidelines/regions/countries/japan/en/ https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guideli... recommends a broad limit of 10 g of salt (4000 mg) per day, claiming that the average consumption in Japan is 12.7 g (based on some pretty dated 1998 study). (Unfortunately, the document pays lip service to the same misconceptions: too much salt causes high blood pressure---and stomach cancer, to boot.) The recommendation is still way above the USDA's crazy figure of 2300 mg. Anyway, pick a country that isn't generally stupid/corrupt about food and health, and use their recommendations.