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How do you guys protect elderly parents? My parents and in-laws aren’t there yet but they all in the retired age group. A friend of the family recently had his
by wil421 4y ago
How do you guys protect elderly parents? My parents and in-laws aren’t there yet but they all in the retired age group.
A friend of the family recently had his email hacked. They sent targeted emails to all his contacts and setup a filter to hide the communication. His brother in law is a stoke victim with impaired cognition and only has access to $12k or so at a time. They were able to scam all of it from him over multiple transfers and he never picked up the phone to call the family friend. The family fiend is also his caretaker and limits his funds access for this exact reason.
The family friend is a retired old GE executive who will probably never run out of money no matter how many cars he buys due to pension funds. I wonder if he was targeted.
- twosdai 4y agoAllow list their phone number to only allow numbers they know to call/communicate with them. Restrict websites to a few domains on the devices they use. Youtube, wsj, etc... If they want a new one just tell them to ask you. It sucks and has problems, but its the only real straightforward and viable option I've seen work. Source: have grandparents who were regularly getting scammed or close to being scammed on a weekly basis.
- itake 4y agoI think you can get away with these restrictions since most of our grandparent’s lives, they didn’t have much access to these services. But what do we do when we get old? Will we be rational enough to disconnect ourselves? What if we don’t have any children that can help us make this decision?
- toomuchtodo 4y agoI have power of attorney and manage their finances for them (mid 90s relative). They spend on a credit card which I make payments against, and review transactions monthly for anomalies (anything besides Walmart, grocery store, pharmacy, Amazon, and recurring monthly services or utilities throws red flags). Make sure your estate planning is properly performed before they decline (physically or mentally). Behavioral improvements and education are nice to haves, but constant vigilance has a high cost for folks at this age and it only takes one successful adversarial attempt to succed. In this case, strong controls and guardrails are a superior solution imho. ($dayjob is infosec/risk mgmt)
- mindslight 4y agoYou might run into headwinds because in their era using a credit card was generally seen as a bad thing (borrowing, takes longer in line, etc). You might have luck finding a card with cash back rewards and/or a referral fee and selling them on those aspects.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoIf they want someone to take care of them, then they need to give up some agency. Spending everything via credit card is the easiest and most effective way to solve this problem.
- mindslight 4y agoI mean, children also generally don't want someone to take care of them, and yet they don't have much say in the matter.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoIt’s easier to assume agency over your children than an adult. Sometimes, you even have to go to court (depending on circumstances). With elderly loved ones, as with everything in life, a negotiation takes place.
- wpietri 4y agoYeah, my grandfather was absolutely opposed to giving up any agency. Especially to his daughters, so I was the front man. When we had to take away his car keys, he came after me with his cane. Hilarious in retrospect, as it was almost a cartoon. But at the time, it was quite dramatic.
- mindslight 4y agoI agree, but that negotiation isn't necessarily in explicit terms. In my experience elderly people will spend all day insisting that they will do something themselves (protecting their own ego), yet most of the time if you go ahead and just do it for them they just accept it and move on.
- coldpie 4y agoBeyond the obvious stuff like installing an ad blocker, I don't know. The best idea I've seen is what you already said, just limit access to funds. When my dad went through Alzheimers, we canceled his cards through the bank or let them expire and just never told him. But he was far enough gone that he would never have had reason to buy anything anyway so he never noticed. For someone still functional but easily tricked and unreceptive to the idea of limits, I don't know.
- crayboff 4y agoThe best option I found was to explain - multiple times - to my grandparents that these scams exist and how each of them work. Hopefully if they are ever approached by a scammer, they'll remember my warning and that hesitation will break them out of the fear used in the scams.
- ct0 4y agoI frequently remind my parents that nearly every email and phone call they get is a scammer. Might be good to "pen test" your parents, through a friend or something.
- gedy 4y agoIs there any way with US banks to only allow transfers via in-person, at-the-bank requests? Some accounts just don't need the convenience of online access, and tired of the "identity theft" spiel from banks to absolve themselves of responsibility.
- bearjaws 4y agoUnfortunately I had to just give my parents (68 and 67 years old) ground rules for all forms of communication. This happened after my dad got a fake $3000 invoice from paypal and he paid it. 1. If a service provider you use reaches out via email asking for money, its fake. Login to their online portal (it took a lot of coaxing to get them comfortable with this...) 2. If a service provider reaches out to you via SMS or Phone call, even if they know your account number or other sensitive data: Tell them you will call them back on the phone number listed on their website. If they insist, its fake. 3. If you aren't sure its fake, just ask me to look at it.
- notwhereyouare 4y ago#3 might be something to try and like really hammer home. Be like "I would rather you ask me about 100 different scam attempts and save $1000s then just pay"
- ryandrake 4y agoThese are good ground rules. Fortunately or unfortunately, my parents were scammed once pretty early on, I believe for a small amount, so they are well aware of what to look for. But after 10 more years of cognitive decline? 20 more? Who knows if they'll still be on guard. The simple rule of thumb that will keep people reasonably safe is: Do not trust anyone who E-mails or calls over the phone to be who they say they are. If they say they are from business XYZ, hang up the phone and call XYZ's main number and ask for them. While there are exceptions and scammers are getting craftier, incoming calls and E-mail is by far the major attack vector.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y agoThese are all very good. Here's one that saved me a fuckton of tech support time: set up dns adblocking/malware domain blocking right on their network/router settings. Save it to the factory defaults too if supported or put some tape over the reset pinhole button. My stepfather always tries the factory reset button as if it's just a more hardcore reboot to "fix" the internet when the service is simply out.
- jliptzin 4y agoMy parents are the same age and have already been scammed a few times. I set up similar rules but I am afraid they might get sucked in again. I don’t understand why law enforcement isn’t doing anything about this. Surely the surveillance dragnet they’ve set up over the last few decades can tell them who is making 750,000 calls a day to elderly people in the US?
- michael_vo 4y agoI really think there should be a startup that integrates with Plaid pulling all bank transactions to build AI models for this. I think real time alerts or daily summaries sent to trusted caretakers. Another layer is having the caretaker approve of the transactions. Can think of this as 2 factor authentication where they'd have to hack multiple phones or accounts for a successful scam. For example, seeing multiple gift cards would be suspicious. Or if you know your parents never take out more than 100$ from the ATM. Sometimes though they willingly scam themselves. My dad gave this real life scammer 30k in advance payment in return for future caregiving services. We told him she was scamming us and he didn't care. When she asked him for more money to buy a new car he finally realized she was truly scamming him.
- bombolo 4y agoThis seems a great app to get access to via using a scam!
- Mizoguchi 4y agoTalk to your bank to see what additional layers of security they can offer for moving money around. It could be as common as sending a pin to YOUR phone or that they actually call the bank to authorize it. Some join accounts also require approval from both parties to transfer large amounts of money. Additionally you can open a secondary account for your elderly relatives for daily expenses, they fund this account from their main account. Anything you do, do it at the banking level, do not rely on your elderly relatives to doge pretty sophisticated scams.
- snarf21 4y agoWe need a mechanism like a credit lock. The ability to block all transactions over $XX.00 until verified out of band. For a lot of these people, that would be only a few times per year and not a big headache. We need to give the CFPB more power.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- paulpauper 4y agoHow do you guys protect elderly parents? My parents and in-laws aren’t there yet but they all in the retired age group. How do you protect your car from your teens crashing it? Don't give them the keys
- neilalexander 4y agoI pretty much just tell them to assume that anyone contacting them by whatever means asking them to do anything is a scammer. In my experience, trying to list and explain all of the ways that scams happen actually has the complete opposite effect — either it ends up as information overload and they don't remember it, or they become so fearful of doing wrong in specific situations that they almost certainly become more vulnerable to fear-based attacks as a result.
- switch007 4y agoI did the same. It worked quite well even though my mother is a deeply trusting person who sees the good in everyone. I tell her that if she ever has any doubt whatsoever that she’s to call me any time any where and I’ll help. I also promised to cover any financial loss due to eg making a late payment because of my advice.
- rootusrootus 4y ago> How do you guys protect elderly parents? I told my mother (who is 81) that the answer is always no. There is never an emergency, the answer is always no, she should hang up and then talk to me. Personally, if possible (we live 10 minutes apart) or at least on the phone. Any legitimate need for money can wait that long. Fortunately, my mother has a somewhat technical background and her mind is 100% still there, so it hasn't ever been a real concern yet. She's skeptical by nature of what she sees online.
- andsoitis 4y ago> How do you guys protect elderly parents? My parents and in-laws aren’t there yet but they all in the retired age group. The ability to reason about money deteriorates with cognitive decline, in large part, I think, because it so abstract. The solution is for them to not have direct access to control all their finances, but rather get monthly amounts via a trust. That way, downside is limited.
- PopAlongKid 4y ago>rather get monthly amounts via a trust. That way, downside is limited. Unless the trustee is a scammer, or worse, one of several adult children who don't agree on how finances should be managed.
- andsoitis 4y agoRigorous trust design is important. Firstly, you have to trust the trustees (so you "scammer" risk is irrelevant). Secondly, it is typical to mitigate against a single trustee not acting in good faith by have an odd number of trustees.
- PopAlongKid 4y ago>you have to trust the trustees (so you "scammer" risk is irrelevant). So you are saying that if you trust the trustee, they can't be a scammer? I don't agree.
- andsoitis 4y agoI don’t know whether you’ve ever established a trust (I have), but the whole point in selecting trustees is that you trust them. They’re not some random person who duped you into a scam. They might break your trust (as the person who originated the trust) but that’s not the same as a scammer. A scammer is someone who who commits or participates in a fraudulent scheme or operation.
- nickthegreek 4y agoMy mom knows that if someone asks her for money outside of her normal bills, she texts me. This has worked well for us.
- TechBro8615 4y agoI upgraded my mom from an iPad to a Chromebook (her first computer) recently. I installed uBlock Origin and set a secure password for the Google account which I store in my password manager, and then instructed her to use the Chrome password manager when she needs it. While I'm confident in the security of Chromebook in general, I'm worried by how readily she pulls out her credit card and types the number into obscure sites for purchasing wedding gifts, etsy items, etc. A few years ago she would click on Facebook ads and buy shit quality products for little reason, but I think she eventually learned not to do that. At least it's a credit card and not a debit card. My dad manages the banking, and is a bit more sophisticated, but even he does things like install programs meant to protect him that actually expose him to more vulnerabilities. For example, there is some Symantec monstrosity installed on his computer that injects a green checkmark into Google search results next to each site it thinks is "trustworthy." It's definitely frightening and mostly a numbers game whether they'll be the next victims of a scam.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoI went the other way. I pulled PCs and anything they COULD install bad software out of the equation.
- Arrath 4y agoI've conditioned my parents to doubt every form of communication that comes to them, whether its a phone call, mailed invoice, or emailed. They'll take a picture and ask me before doing anything about it. Hopefully this practice continues as they age. Sure its a little more of a nuisance for me, but it also gives peace of mind that I'm helping in some small way.
- newsclues 4y agoCall your governments, and apply pressure to force them to force the business community (telcos, banks, etc) to stop tolerating this and get serious about it.
- rtp4me 4y agoWe have this sort of issue with my mother-in-law (90s). The best thing I did was setup a Chromebook (ChromeOS Flex) with just the basics (mail, photos, etc). From there, we routinely login to the GMail account and remove crap from her emails. It is tough - especially since the world is so on-line (photos of grandchildren, etc). Given the huge disparity between her age and technology, it is extremely important we act as her proxy for her online communications. Privacy be dammed.
- robbs 4y agoSomething I haven't seen mentioned is a DNS firewall to block phishing domains and newly registered domains. I use NextDNS for that and I'm sure there are others.