4 ms·

In my building (northern Europe) the doors are open for quite a while (maybe ten seconds). The door-close button closes immediately on push, as long as nothing/

by eCa 4y ago

In my building (northern Europe) the doors are open for quite a while (maybe ten seconds). The door-close button closes immediately on push, as long as nothing/no-one is entering/leaving the elevator. If it didn’t, I’d use the elevator even less than I do. Stairs to/from the third floor is just about the same time as the elevator.

Reason077 4y ago
Right. Throughout Europe and the UK, the "door close" button usually does exactly that. Unless something is blocking the door, it will close the door immediately. It's in the US and Canada that the placebo, non-working "door close" button seems to be the norm, due to regulations in those countries. So why have a "door close" button at all in the US? I guess because most elevator designs/manufacturers have their origins in Europe. ThyssenKrupp (Germany), Kone (Finland), Schindler (Germany), etc. And rather than design a different panel for the European and North American markets, they just have one common design but with the software configured differently.
- klausa 4y ago
  > So why have a "door close" button at all in the US? If only the article you're commenting on described in detail a secondary, safety-critical function of that button, maybe we wouldn't have to resort to this kind of speculation. Oh well. Maybe next time!
- windows2020 4y ago
  The article explains that door close may function in some scenarios and special modes, like independent service mode. Maintenance put one elevator into this mode to help us with moving in. The elevator stayed open at the floor until door close was pressed and held long enough for the doors to close at which time it became eligible to move to the specified floor.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > So why have a “door close” button at all in the US? As explicitly stated in the article: (1) Its a legal and functional requirement for fire service mode, when automatic door closing is completely disabled. (2) Some users (the article specifically tested hospitals, based on experience of very long normal door hold times there that would suggest their should be a window between the minimum and normal hold time) do, in fact, configure minimum and normal hold time with a window which allows the button to operate. It’s not a “non-functional button”. Its a button which is functional, but where the variable it controls is often configured by users to have no range of variability.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    Fair enough. So the button does have a purpose. But I think it’s fair to say that in most US elevator installations, when the elevator is operating in its normal mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no effect.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      > But I think it’s fair to say that in most US elevator installations, when the elevator is operating in its normal mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no effect. Not quite. There is both a minimum door hold time and a door hold time. If the door hold time is longer than the minimum door hold time, the close door button works after the minimum door hold time. Only if these times are the same does the button effectively do nothing.
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  The panel isn't really much of an argument. Elevators allow many configurations in amount of floors, floors requiring special permission, ... so they have to provide a bunch of panels anyways.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  > Throughout.. the UK, the "door close" button usually does exactly that. Not in my experience. I'd say it works in maybe 50% of lifts. Maybe less. Kind of hilarious that this guy thinks he has proved everyone wrong by checking two lifts!
dfox 4y ago
Another thing that is probably specific to Europe are elevators with retrofitted carriage doors that originally had only shaft doors. In this case the carriage doors are usually motorized, while the shaft doors are not. And in this case the close door button makes significant difference.
heleninboodler 4y ago
Same in my building, in the US. I have noticed that the time between the arrival signal and the doors being fully opened is surprisingly long, however (maybe 7 seconds), so the ADA requirement is met even when the elevator allows you to close the doors immediately. Other fun facts: - you can push and hold the door close button before the doors have fully opened, and once they get all the way open they will immediately close. - a couple months ago, the door close button broke and my daughters and I noticed it *immediately* and it was actually fixed within a couple weeks.

by eCa 4y ago

Reason077 4y ago

Right. Throughout Europe and the UK, the "door close" button usually does exactly that. Unless something is blocking the door, it will close the door immediately. It's in the US and Canada that the placebo, non-working "door close" button seems to be the norm, due to regulations in those countries. So why have a "door close" button at all in the US? I guess because most elevator designs/manufacturers have their origins in Europe. ThyssenKrupp (Germany), Kone (Finland), Schindler (Germany), etc. And rather than design a different panel for the European and North American markets, they just have one common design but with the software configured differently.

klausa 4y ago
> So why have a "door close" button at all in the US? If only the article you're commenting on described in detail a secondary, safety-critical function of that button, maybe we wouldn't have to resort to this kind of speculation. Oh well. Maybe next time!
windows2020 4y ago
The article explains that door close may function in some scenarios and special modes, like independent service mode. Maintenance put one elevator into this mode to help us with moving in. The elevator stayed open at the floor until door close was pressed and held long enough for the doors to close at which time it became eligible to move to the specified floor.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> So why have a “door close” button at all in the US? As explicitly stated in the article: (1) Its a legal and functional requirement for fire service mode, when automatic door closing is completely disabled. (2) Some users (the article specifically tested hospitals, based on experience of very long normal door hold times there that would suggest their should be a window between the minimum and normal hold time) do, in fact, configure minimum and normal hold time with a window which allows the button to operate. It’s not a “non-functional button”. Its a button which is functional, but where the variable it controls is often configured by users to have no range of variability.
- Reason077 4y ago
  Fair enough. So the button does have a purpose. But I think it’s fair to say that in most US elevator installations, when the elevator is operating in its normal mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no effect.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > But I think it’s fair to say that in most US elevator installations, when the elevator is operating in its normal mode (not service or fire mode), the button has no effect. Not quite. There is both a minimum door hold time and a door hold time. If the door hold time is longer than the minimum door hold time, the close door button works after the minimum door hold time. Only if these times are the same does the button effectively do nothing.
johannes1234321 4y ago
The panel isn't really much of an argument. Elevators allow many configurations in amount of floors, floors requiring special permission, ... so they have to provide a bunch of panels anyways.
IshKebab 4y ago
> Throughout.. the UK, the "door close" button usually does exactly that. Not in my experience. I'd say it works in maybe 50% of lifts. Maybe less. Kind of hilarious that this guy thinks he has proved everyone wrong by checking two lifts!

dfox 4y ago

Another thing that is probably specific to Europe are elevators with retrofitted carriage doors that originally had only shaft doors. In this case the carriage doors are usually motorized, while the shaft doors are not. And in this case the close door button makes significant difference.

heleninboodler 4y ago

Same in my building, in the US. I have noticed that the time between the arrival signal and the doors being fully opened is surprisingly long, however (maybe 7 seconds), so the ADA requirement is met even when the elevator allows you to close the doors immediately. Other fun facts: - you can push and hold the door close button before the doors have fully opened, and once they get all the way open they will immediately close. - a couple months ago, the door close button broke and my daughters and I noticed it *immediately* and it was actually fixed within a couple weeks.