7 ms·

I sometimes wonder what the "right amount of time" for this would be. Surely 30 days is nowhere near enough. 60 days also feels like too little. 90 days is the

I sometimes wonder what the "right amount of time" for this would be. Surely 30 days is nowhere near enough. 60 days also feels like too little. 90 days is the typical tourist visa duration; that seems more reasonable as a minimum duration to me. Does it need to be 180 days? 364? I just don't know, but 60 seems too low.

codetrotter 4y ago
It should increase with time. 90 days if you are let go during your first year of working in the country. 180 days if you have been working in the country for more than a year. 365 days if you have been working in the country for more than three years.
- tdsanchez 4y ago
  "It should increase with time." Why is that?
  - i2ksbu2b 4y ago
    to avoid hacking
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    The longer you've been in a place the more established you'll be there. You'll have built relationships, you might own a home, you might have made large purchases that aren't easy to move like a car... etc.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      also, kids in school or have a girlfriend/boyfriend that you may want to marry. you really don't want to rush a marriage just because your visa is about to expire.
  - AdamN 4y ago
    It incentivizes people to invest more. If you know that even after 4 years of time you are still only 60 days away from deportation you likely won't put down as much of an investment in the country.
  - sshine 4y ago
    The longer you have worked, the move you have proved yourself. Bayesian inference.
  - the_mar 4y ago
    As an immigrant, because you’ve built your life here, because you managed to be a positive contributor to a society for years, because you are clearly aren’t here to abuse american benefits (that you can’t even get).
    - linuxftw 4y ago
      You shouldn't build your life here on a temporary visa. 4 years should be the maximum allowed stay, and the employer should be obligated to have you train your replacement the entire time. Otherwise, it's just a wage-suppressing system of indentured service.
      - ckaygusu 4y ago
        Why not actually treat them with dignity instead, and give them a legit chance to settle?
        the_mar 4y ago
        Because clearly people who weren’t born here are unworthy of being treated equally. And because “they took our jerbws”
        sokoloff 4y ago
        I am in favor of treating H1B holders with dignity, but I think it's at least fair (and likely proper) for any country's government to give priority and preference to its own citizens/permanent residents over the citizens/permanent residents of other countries. I think that's what the debate ends up being about in a time like this. If there comes a broad tech recession, should the US government prioritize the needs of US citizen/permanent resident tech workers or the needs of H1B tech workers? As much as I believe we must treat everyone with dignity, it seems eminently reasonable for the US government to prioritize the first group over the second group (and even unreasonable to not do that).
        the_mar 4y ago
        What you say holds true. Of course the US nationals have to be prioritized. But the reality is they already are. Hiring someone on H1B results in lawyer fees and visa fees. Every company is already incentivized to hire domestically. Which I do agree is 100% fair. However how is extending the grace period beyond 60 days harming anyone?
butterNaN 4y ago
Not sure how feasible it would be, but the limit should be a runtime calculation depending on various factors (e.g. Median time it's taking to find a job nowadays). A static time limit, I feel is wrong for somethimg that is so fluctuating. Especially in current climate.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Extending the duration based on a poor job market would certainly be more accommodating to the people on H1-B visas who are between work, but it works against the stated purpose of the program. The H1-B program is designed* to provide labor force supplementation when no citizens/permanent residents can be found to fill a given position. In a prolonged recession, I'd expect the median time to find a job to go up substantially, but also for the argument that "we can't find any permanent residents to fill this position" to be substantially weakened. * - at least ostensibly.
  - the_mar 4y ago
    I mean yes, but there should be some incentive to keep the H1B workers that are already in the country, and have been in american workforce for a few years. Considering barriers to actually interviewing and assessing someone who is abroad, and how long it takes for someone to actually get a brand-new H1B and move to the US, 60 days just does not seem like incentive enough. Besides what is the downside of allowing people to remain longer? They don’t have access to majority of benefits citizens get, yet they pay same (but also due to highly skilled job nature much higher taxes)?
maxerickson 4y ago
It should be extremely relaxed and extend if there is a little bit of evidence that work is being pursued. It's expensive to live without working, people aren't going to do it on a lark.
- sshine 4y ago
  If even the opportunity for sporadic work is there, this may be a better option than going to your home country where either pay is much lower, or the type of work isn't available. These rules are made to avoid obtaining a reserve of foreigners who do not work, even if they're capable. I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad, but that seems to be the intent.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm not interested in picking at the details of how the terrible program is designed, I'm making an assertion about what I think makes sense.
sshine 4y ago
90 days seems more reasonable. When it's higher, this deliberately sets a higher bar for foreigners.
desi_ninja 4y ago
None of the 2 political parties want to fix it. They don't want influx of well educated immigrants who can make informed voting decisions
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pshirshov 4y ago
It's six months in Ireland.
Archelaos 4y ago
Germany's visa for job search for professionals gives you up to 6 months to find a job. A foreigner who has completed an academic degree in Germany can get up to 18 months afterwards and a foreign researcher who has finished her or his research up to 9 months. For a vocational qualifications it is up to 12 months.[1] These time limits are maxima, but are usually granted for people already living in Germany if their livelihood is secured and no other important aspects speak against it, such as a criminal record. There is no time limit if a foreigner has an open-ended residence permit, which is possible after 5 years living in Germany (additional requirements apply).[2] [1] § 20 AufenthG, see: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__20.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__20.html (in German) [2] For mor infos see: https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/ZuwandererDrittstaaten/Migrathek/Niederlassen/niederlassen-node.html;jsessionid=F23E018EB9912C647D0F3CC46D7D9852.intranet252 https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/Zuwanderer...
- fsdjfkaadsfhsd 4y ago
  Note as a professional you can get a PR after as little as 21 months

codetrotter 4y ago

It should increase with time. 90 days if you are let go during your first year of working in the country. 180 days if you have been working in the country for more than a year. 365 days if you have been working in the country for more than three years.

tdsanchez 4y ago
"It should increase with time." Why is that?
- i2ksbu2b 4y ago
  to avoid hacking
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  The longer you've been in a place the more established you'll be there. You'll have built relationships, you might own a home, you might have made large purchases that aren't easy to move like a car... etc.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    also, kids in school or have a girlfriend/boyfriend that you may want to marry. you really don't want to rush a marriage just because your visa is about to expire.
- AdamN 4y ago
  It incentivizes people to invest more. If you know that even after 4 years of time you are still only 60 days away from deportation you likely won't put down as much of an investment in the country.
- sshine 4y ago
  The longer you have worked, the move you have proved yourself. Bayesian inference.
- the_mar 4y ago
  As an immigrant, because you’ve built your life here, because you managed to be a positive contributor to a society for years, because you are clearly aren’t here to abuse american benefits (that you can’t even get).
  - linuxftw 4y ago
    You shouldn't build your life here on a temporary visa. 4 years should be the maximum allowed stay, and the employer should be obligated to have you train your replacement the entire time. Otherwise, it's just a wage-suppressing system of indentured service.
    - ckaygusu 4y ago
      Why not actually treat them with dignity instead, and give them a legit chance to settle?
      - the_mar 4y ago
        Because clearly people who weren’t born here are unworthy of being treated equally. And because “they took our jerbws”
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        I am in favor of treating H1B holders with dignity, but I think it's at least fair (and likely proper) for any country's government to give priority and preference to its own citizens/permanent residents over the citizens/permanent residents of other countries. I think that's what the debate ends up being about in a time like this. If there comes a broad tech recession, should the US government prioritize the needs of US citizen/permanent resident tech workers or the needs of H1B tech workers? As much as I believe we must treat everyone with dignity, it seems eminently reasonable for the US government to prioritize the first group over the second group (and even unreasonable to not do that).
        the_mar 4y ago
        What you say holds true. Of course the US nationals have to be prioritized. But the reality is they already are. Hiring someone on H1B results in lawyer fees and visa fees. Every company is already incentivized to hire domestically. Which I do agree is 100% fair. However how is extending the grace period beyond 60 days harming anyone?

butterNaN 4y ago

Not sure how feasible it would be, but the limit should be a runtime calculation depending on various factors (e.g. Median time it's taking to find a job nowadays). A static time limit, I feel is wrong for somethimg that is so fluctuating. Especially in current climate.

sokoloff 4y ago
Extending the duration based on a poor job market would certainly be more accommodating to the people on H1-B visas who are between work, but it works against the stated purpose of the program. The H1-B program is designed* to provide labor force supplementation when no citizens/permanent residents can be found to fill a given position. In a prolonged recession, I'd expect the median time to find a job to go up substantially, but also for the argument that "we can't find any permanent residents to fill this position" to be substantially weakened. * - at least ostensibly.
- the_mar 4y ago
  I mean yes, but there should be some incentive to keep the H1B workers that are already in the country, and have been in american workforce for a few years. Considering barriers to actually interviewing and assessing someone who is abroad, and how long it takes for someone to actually get a brand-new H1B and move to the US, 60 days just does not seem like incentive enough. Besides what is the downside of allowing people to remain longer? They don’t have access to majority of benefits citizens get, yet they pay same (but also due to highly skilled job nature much higher taxes)?

maxerickson 4y ago

It should be extremely relaxed and extend if there is a little bit of evidence that work is being pursued. It's expensive to live without working, people aren't going to do it on a lark.

sshine 4y ago
If even the opportunity for sporadic work is there, this may be a better option than going to your home country where either pay is much lower, or the type of work isn't available. These rules are made to avoid obtaining a reserve of foreigners who do not work, even if they're capable. I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad, but that seems to be the intent.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm not interested in picking at the details of how the terrible program is designed, I'm making an assertion about what I think makes sense.

sshine 4y ago

90 days seems more reasonable. When it's higher, this deliberately sets a higher bar for foreigners.

desi_ninja 4y ago

None of the 2 political parties want to fix it. They don't want influx of well educated immigrants who can make informed voting decisions

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pshirshov 4y ago

It's six months in Ireland.

Archelaos 4y ago

Germany's visa for job search for professionals gives you up to 6 months to find a job. A foreigner who has completed an academic degree in Germany can get up to 18 months afterwards and a foreign researcher who has finished her or his research up to 9 months. For a vocational qualifications it is up to 12 months.[1] These time limits are maxima, but are usually granted for people already living in Germany if their livelihood is secured and no other important aspects speak against it, such as a criminal record. There is no time limit if a foreigner has an open-ended residence permit, which is possible after 5 years living in Germany (additional requirements apply).[2] [1] § 20 AufenthG, see: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__20.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthg_2004/__20.html (in German) [2] For mor infos see: https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/ZuwandererDrittstaaten/Migrathek/Niederlassen/niederlassen-node.html;jsessionid=F23E018EB9912C647D0F3CC46D7D9852.intranet252 https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/MigrationAufenthalt/Zuwanderer...

fsdjfkaadsfhsd 4y ago
Note as a professional you can get a PR after as little as 21 months