4 ms·

> Ignore the polite abstractions. The marines are training for a war with China, probably precipitated by an invasion of Taiwan. I guess the consent manufactur

> Ignore the polite abstractions. The marines are training for a war with China, probably precipitated by an invasion of Taiwan. I guess the consent manufacturing has started. "If shit hits the fan, remember: it was probably China who started it."

ianburrell 4y ago
The initiators of violence are the ones blamed for starting it. Like how Russia is blamed for the invasion of Ukraine.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  You must be confused. PRC has not invaded anything.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    shit hasn't the fan
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    Art of war Pushing Russia to start a war ( friends with no limits was even publicly announced), see how the west reacts, but don't interfere enough ( so you won't get involved and have more time to identify weak points + weaken the enemy support - eg. Availability of artillery supplies). Base yourself on that. Or do you think it's a confidence the invasion started just after the Beijng Olympics ( ~ propaganda)? In the muddy season.
    - avgcorrection 4y ago
      > Or do you think it's a confidence the invasion started just after the Beijng Olympics? Not a “confidence” no, since there were rumors already a year ago that Xi asked Putin to delay the invasion based on that. But it’s a leap from that to claiming that China indirectly master-minded the invasion of Ukraine.
      - NicoJuicy 4y ago
        Coincidence... I'm not saying masterminded, but it embolded Russia. Poo-tin was already eager to show "who's boss" after he didn't get enough "attention" in ~ 2000 for his ego. Little guys...
        avgcorrection 4y ago
        I can see that you are very serious about geopolitics.
        NicoJuicy 4y ago
        I'm jokingly describing the situation where Putin was the first to condolence the US after 9/11 ( for personal gain). But was hurt in his ego because of Iraq, since it was in/near the self-claimed Russian sphere of influence and he wasn't aware until it started. Relations between the US and Russia deteriorated after that. He's been planning "revenge" for the next 20 years => the reference to little guys...
        avgcorrection 4y ago
        Why are you dunking on the US for their illegal invasion of Iraq? This is a thread about China. Stop with the whataboutism.
ilaksh 4y ago
This is the biggest threat to security globally is that once it has been decided that the war is strategic, both sides will use propaganda to motivate their population into thinking that the war is a moral mission. There is not going to be anything moral about it. War is caused by a total failure of management over a number of years. A big part of what is increasing tensions are the real world economic problems globally. Then if the nation-states decide that things are serious enough they will make the calculation that mass murder is a good way to enhance their strategic position. But there will be lies about China, lies about the United States, and a huge propaganda effort to dehumanize the other population or focus on whatever bad acts that have come before in order to justify war which again is a national policy of mass murder. My take is that the leaders that push this war forward should be held to account as criminals themselves since they are advocating for millions to be killed.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  Yep. All true.
- ianburrell 4y ago
  My worry from debating Chinese nationalists is that they think war is necessary, that it will go their way, and that it will end. I totally understand China wanting to be superpower. They seem to think that the US is coercing everybody, including allies, by force. They think that if US is defeated and they can replace them or at least coerce the local area. I wish they kept using soft power, that was working well for them. They talk about Taiwan falling immediately and nobody helping them. China is stronger now but even alone Taiwan could put up a strong fight. Excluding big change in politics, the US will defend Taiwan. China could still win, but it would be uncertain. They also ignore the consequences like cutting off trade with most of the world. Finally, I'm most worried about how the war ends. If China succeeds in invasion, then war will probably end. But do they realize that trade will never return to normal. Or that South Korea and Japan will build nuclear weapons if US commitment wavers. Also, that there are actions, like attacking US mainland, which will escalate the war and make it hard to end except in nuclear war.
  - 4y ago
rnk 4y ago
No one made Russia invade Ukraine. They could have just... not have invaded them, and they could declare victory and leave tomorrow. It's the same with China and Taiwan here, China can just ... not invade Taiwan if they want to avoid a war.

ianburrell 4y ago

The initiators of violence are the ones blamed for starting it. Like how Russia is blamed for the invasion of Ukraine.

avgcorrection 4y ago
You must be confused. PRC has not invaded anything.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  shit hasn't the fan
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  Art of war Pushing Russia to start a war ( friends with no limits was even publicly announced), see how the west reacts, but don't interfere enough ( so you won't get involved and have more time to identify weak points + weaken the enemy support - eg. Availability of artillery supplies). Base yourself on that. Or do you think it's a confidence the invasion started just after the Beijng Olympics ( ~ propaganda)? In the muddy season.
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    > Or do you think it's a confidence the invasion started just after the Beijng Olympics? Not a “confidence” no, since there were rumors already a year ago that Xi asked Putin to delay the invasion based on that. But it’s a leap from that to claiming that China indirectly master-minded the invasion of Ukraine.
    - NicoJuicy 4y ago
      Coincidence... I'm not saying masterminded, but it embolded Russia. Poo-tin was already eager to show "who's boss" after he didn't get enough "attention" in ~ 2000 for his ego. Little guys...
      - avgcorrection 4y ago
        I can see that you are very serious about geopolitics.
        NicoJuicy 4y ago
        I'm jokingly describing the situation where Putin was the first to condolence the US after 9/11 ( for personal gain). But was hurt in his ego because of Iraq, since it was in/near the self-claimed Russian sphere of influence and he wasn't aware until it started. Relations between the US and Russia deteriorated after that. He's been planning "revenge" for the next 20 years => the reference to little guys...
        avgcorrection 4y ago
        Why are you dunking on the US for their illegal invasion of Iraq? This is a thread about China. Stop with the whataboutism.

ilaksh 4y ago

This is the biggest threat to security globally is that once it has been decided that the war is strategic, both sides will use propaganda to motivate their population into thinking that the war is a moral mission. There is not going to be anything moral about it. War is caused by a total failure of management over a number of years. A big part of what is increasing tensions are the real world economic problems globally. Then if the nation-states decide that things are serious enough they will make the calculation that mass murder is a good way to enhance their strategic position. But there will be lies about China, lies about the United States, and a huge propaganda effort to dehumanize the other population or focus on whatever bad acts that have come before in order to justify war which again is a national policy of mass murder. My take is that the leaders that push this war forward should be held to account as criminals themselves since they are advocating for millions to be killed.

avgcorrection 4y ago
Yep. All true.
ianburrell 4y ago
My worry from debating Chinese nationalists is that they think war is necessary, that it will go their way, and that it will end. I totally understand China wanting to be superpower. They seem to think that the US is coercing everybody, including allies, by force. They think that if US is defeated and they can replace them or at least coerce the local area. I wish they kept using soft power, that was working well for them. They talk about Taiwan falling immediately and nobody helping them. China is stronger now but even alone Taiwan could put up a strong fight. Excluding big change in politics, the US will defend Taiwan. China could still win, but it would be uncertain. They also ignore the consequences like cutting off trade with most of the world. Finally, I'm most worried about how the war ends. If China succeeds in invasion, then war will probably end. But do they realize that trade will never return to normal. Or that South Korea and Japan will build nuclear weapons if US commitment wavers. Also, that there are actions, like attacking US mainland, which will escalate the war and make it hard to end except in nuclear war.
- 4y ago

rnk 4y ago

No one made Russia invade Ukraine. They could have just... not have invaded them, and they could declare victory and leave tomorrow. It's the same with China and Taiwan here, China can just ... not invade Taiwan if they want to avoid a war.