5 ms·

I'd love to see something like this. I'm an old computer science guy and would love to write software again. I can write plenty of functionality in Python but I

I'd love to see something like this. I'm an old computer science guy and would love to write software again. I can write plenty of functionality in Python but I don't really want to learn all the JS stuff. I just don't like it. If I could abstract away the details it would be a big help. I'm not going to build anything that requires scale or commercial performance so I can afford to compromise versus the "purity" of having your own stack.

mxuribe 4y ago
> ...I'm an old computer science guy and would love to write software again. I can write plenty of functionality in Python but I don't really want to learn all the JS stuff... Back in early 2000s, i used to be more of a front-end dev...but over the years of being more of a manager (or PM or product manager) i stepped away from daily development...So, you know, I lost my touch. But a few years ago when i tried to dip back into things again, i got turned off from needing to "learn all the JS stuff". It feels all so bloated and so much work for what to me seems minimal gain. Nowadays, i much prefer back-end development (not that iots easy, but maybe it just clicks more for me without so much JS stuff)...so when i see frameworks like this one, i get more interested.
- adfm 4y ago
  Check out htmx.
  - mxuribe 4y ago
    Thanks for this recommendation! I had actually already added htmx to my "need to research/review" list of bookmarks... since it kept coming up in HN comments so often. Now, i guess i can move it up a tad in priority.
- anakaine 4y ago
  I'm in exactly the same boat. Ive managed to keep inntouch with core tools on the backend, but frontend has just withered on the vine, so to speak. Learning all the JS stuff is just too hard when combined with back end, data, auth, layout, display, responsive, etc.
  - mxuribe 4y ago
    > ...when combined with back end, data, auth, layout, display, responsive, etc... Exactly! Glad to hear I'm not alone in that boat! :-)
    - tomerbd 4y ago
      Room for another one on that boat? : -)
  - rlawson 4y ago
    Permission to come aboard?
- cutler 4y ago
  Then you might like Rails 7 which defaults to Hotwire for a minimal-JS front-end.
  - anakaine 4y ago
    In simple terms, what does Hotwire mean / provide?
    - cutler 4y ago
      Hotwire allows you to handle front-end page/view updates and state from the server instead of relying on an SPA framework. Rails sends the minimal amount of JS to update the page without a full reload and for many use cases it's all you need. When you click a link configured with Hotwire turbolinks intercepts the call, fetches the new content from Rails and strips out everything except the body tag and its contents then uses that, with a sprinkling of JS, to update the page/view.
      - anakaine 4y ago
        That's sounds pretty good, actually.
- bmikaili 4y ago
  Try Svelte
  - randomluck040 4y ago
    What makes Svelte easier than other approaches?
clocker 4y ago
Have you tried Django? https://www.djangoproject.com/ https://www.djangoproject.com/
- scrollbar 4y ago
  In my experience using Django for my webapps hasn't meant I can avoid HTML and javascript. Writing templates is writing HTML, and any relatively fancy UI including charting etc. requires using javascript
  - 8organicbits 4y ago
    I built a recent Django site that only used JS for analytics and to implement the close button on a modal. You can do charting using server side rendered images pretty easily, especially as SVGs (although I concede, dynamic charts client side are a better UI). CSS is harder to escape if you want things to look fancy. Given the update latency pynecone has, I can't imagine a charting library would work well.
  - clocker 4y ago
    well, I am not sure how you can build a webapp by avoiding HTML, JS and CSS.
- zimmund 4y ago
  It could be a nice option for small projects! The companies where I saw Django in production had terrible issues. Last.fm is one of them, I can't speak directly about the other one (aerospace). Django is good for a proof of concept but once you hit real-world requirements or your developers (inevitably unaware of the nuances of Django) start adding code and exceptions, it completely breaks down. Django was a good idea back when PHP was the only way to make "interactive" pages. Nowadays -for big/real projects- is just asking for trouble. Long time ago -for a personal project- I used CherryPy, which is simpler and easy to learn. I don't know where it stands today, but it's another option.
  - luispauloml 4y ago

mxuribe 4y ago

> ...I'm an old computer science guy and would love to write software again. I can write plenty of functionality in Python but I don't really want to learn all the JS stuff... Back in early 2000s, i used to be more of a front-end dev...but over the years of being more of a manager (or PM or product manager) i stepped away from daily development...So, you know, I lost my touch. But a few years ago when i tried to dip back into things again, i got turned off from needing to "learn all the JS stuff". It feels all so bloated and so much work for what to me seems minimal gain. Nowadays, i much prefer back-end development (not that iots easy, but maybe it just clicks more for me without so much JS stuff)...so when i see frameworks like this one, i get more interested.

adfm 4y ago
Check out htmx.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  Thanks for this recommendation! I had actually already added htmx to my "need to research/review" list of bookmarks... since it kept coming up in HN comments so often. Now, i guess i can move it up a tad in priority.
anakaine 4y ago
I'm in exactly the same boat. Ive managed to keep inntouch with core tools on the backend, but frontend has just withered on the vine, so to speak. Learning all the JS stuff is just too hard when combined with back end, data, auth, layout, display, responsive, etc.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  > ...when combined with back end, data, auth, layout, display, responsive, etc... Exactly! Glad to hear I'm not alone in that boat! :-)
  - tomerbd 4y ago
    Room for another one on that boat? : -)
- rlawson 4y ago
  Permission to come aboard?
cutler 4y ago
Then you might like Rails 7 which defaults to Hotwire for a minimal-JS front-end.
- anakaine 4y ago
  In simple terms, what does Hotwire mean / provide?
  - cutler 4y ago
    Hotwire allows you to handle front-end page/view updates and state from the server instead of relying on an SPA framework. Rails sends the minimal amount of JS to update the page without a full reload and for many use cases it's all you need. When you click a link configured with Hotwire turbolinks intercepts the call, fetches the new content from Rails and strips out everything except the body tag and its contents then uses that, with a sprinkling of JS, to update the page/view.
    - anakaine 4y ago
      That's sounds pretty good, actually.
bmikaili 4y ago
Try Svelte
- randomluck040 4y ago
  What makes Svelte easier than other approaches?

clocker 4y ago

Have you tried Django? https://www.djangoproject.com/ https://www.djangoproject.com/

scrollbar 4y ago
In my experience using Django for my webapps hasn't meant I can avoid HTML and javascript. Writing templates is writing HTML, and any relatively fancy UI including charting etc. requires using javascript
- 8organicbits 4y ago
  I built a recent Django site that only used JS for analytics and to implement the close button on a modal. You can do charting using server side rendered images pretty easily, especially as SVGs (although I concede, dynamic charts client side are a better UI). CSS is harder to escape if you want things to look fancy. Given the update latency pynecone has, I can't imagine a charting library would work well.
- clocker 4y ago
  well, I am not sure how you can build a webapp by avoiding HTML, JS and CSS.
zimmund 4y ago
It could be a nice option for small projects! The companies where I saw Django in production had terrible issues. Last.fm is one of them, I can't speak directly about the other one (aerospace). Django is good for a proof of concept but once you hit real-world requirements or your developers (inevitably unaware of the nuances of Django) start adding code and exceptions, it completely breaks down. Django was a good idea back when PHP was the only way to make "interactive" pages. Nowadays -for big/real projects- is just asking for trouble. Long time ago -for a personal project- I used CherryPy, which is simpler and easy to learn. I don't know where it stands today, but it's another option.
- luispauloml 4y ago