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Yeah this is a good insight. It's likely this lines up with what most customers of laptops would think if they learned about the framework laptop for the first

Yeah this is a good insight. It's likely this lines up with what most customers of laptops would think if they learned about the framework laptop for the first time. When I first heard about the port changing feature I thought it was cool and useful. But i am now starting to wonder how often it would be used even by myself if I had one.

Dalewyn 4y ago
I imagine the point isn't for you to keep on switching the ports out every day. Rather, it's so everyone can get the ports they want with minimal overhead for Framework the company (fewer SKUs, less spare inventory, etc.). It's like LEGO: You can put together exactly what you want using exactly the bricks you want, and you aren't expected to take it all apart and build something new the next day just because you could either.
- jefurii 4y ago
  I occasioanlly set my Framework down in a place where it's more convenient to have power and/or HDMI on the other side and it's simple to rearrange the modules.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  It’s also standardized, so you don’t have to only pick ports that Framework decides are valid. You can also add 3rd party ports of your own choosing.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  I think one model with the bog standard stuff and one with the modules is a good compromise, or will be when they're more established and can afford the overhead you correctly point out. Right now they're very much a startup, and so I agree with you that it makes sense for them as a company right now.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >bog standard stuff That's the question, though: What is "bog standard"? Apple will tell you bog standard is two USB-C ports. A tech enthusiast will tell you bog standard is at least 10 mixed USB-A and -C ports, at least three DisplayPorts, at least one ethernet jack, and a headphone jack. Jane Average over there will tell you bog standard is a power button. A DIYer will tell you bog standard is GPIO and serial. USB-IF will tell you bog standard is USB4.11 For Workgroups Revision 5 Type D 50gbps 2x4.
    - IYasha 4y ago
      There was one laptop made by ASUS. It had SO much connectivity in a 12" case no one attempted ever since. And it would be the best if not for poor battery life. But the battery was swappable. The model is U6Sg. If I could buy anything like that today (with good battery life and AMD processor), I'd be happy.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      Pretty sure Jane Average would also include a charging port ;) Joking aside, to my mind bog standard is by definition not given by Apple, enthusiasts, hardware hackers, USB-IF, or someone who never needs a port ever. My mom is very tech illiterate and even she uses a cheap wireless mouse, and other USB stuff. It's obviously something Framework would have to research and think about. But I don't think it's unreasonable to say there is some definition of bog standard that should be able to serve 80% of customers. Where the 20% is made up of various niches that are happy to pay a premium for the modularity because they really need it.
    - djur 4y ago
      Well, the Framework doesn't give you most of those options. You get 4 total of any of the following: USB-A, USB-C, DisplayPort, HDMI, MicroSD, Ethernet. (In practice a USB-C is mandatory for charging.) Plus built-in headphone. If you want any more than that, or anything different, you're gonna need a USB dongle like any other laptop.
    - tracker1 4y ago
      At this point, for better or worse, and I know some may not like it... would be almost all USB-C. With thunderbolt, power delivery and video adapter options over the port, there's really not much reason to go otherwise, noting that some ports are not the same. One option might be to have a backplate adapter similar to ATX motherboards, where that just slots into the case itself attached to the motherboard... so Gen 3 could have 3x usb-c, 1 usb-a and a 4-pole headphone jack... Then all usb-c + headphone a generation after... but the horizontal spacing pre-defined like ATX backplane.
- TomK32 4y ago
  Bricklink list 76527 unique Lego parts, including Duplo. So much for the "fewer SKUs". There's also 15155 mini figures.
  - cstrahan 4y ago
    Compare 76527 unique Lego parts to number of elements in the power set of those 76527 Lego parts — imagine if each combination also had its own skew. That’s the sort of comparison being made — providing simple components and letting the user combine them as they see fit means managing fewer SKUs than otherwise. This logic does not change with respect to the number of simple components — if Framework wanted to provide module for 76527 distinct peripherals, that’s 1 SKU for the laptop plus 76527 SKUs for the modules… which is a lot less than selling 2^76527 distinct laptops for every set of peripherals (leaving aside size constraints, and the fact that many people actually want more than one of the same peripheral). Additionally, fewer is fewer, regardless of scale. 999,999 of something is fewer than 1,000,000 of something. So yes, the "Lego approach" would mean fewer SKUs.
  - aqfamnzc 4y ago
    I agree with your point, but generally when people say "like LEGO" they mean "modular". Not that you can build literally any shape the way you can with actual LEGO.
- warner25 4y ago
  My wife and I each got an 11th Gen Framework in late 2021, and I think it's mostly this - e.g. my wife wanted an HDMI port and I didn't - but I've also found reason to switch ports around a few times. It's certainly not everyday, but I've had a few different workspace arrangements where sometimes it was better to have my charging port on one side or the other; not strictly necessary, but nicer for cable management. Next month I might borrow my wife's HDMI port when I need to give a few presentations.
agloe_dreams 4y ago
This is pretty much my angle. My 14inch macbook pro has a power jack(magsafe), three Thunderbolt ports, an SD card slot, HDMI, and a really low-noise, high-power fantastic 3.5mm. About the only thing I really would ever want is ethernet but even then I probably would rather dock the machine over TB anywhere I would use that. It is just is so much better than plugging in 4 cables. (Side note: It's kinda surprising that mankind has not invented a smaller RJ45)
- goosedragons 4y ago
  There's loads of laptops with RJ45 jacks that fold up to take up less space when not being used. There were also PCMCIA ethernet cards where the jack pops out and you insert the cable downwards. I don't think Apple cares enough about ethernet on laptops anymore to bother. Personally I find the choice of SD card slot puzzling. USB A or ethernet would have been far more useful IMO. I have exactly one device with full fat SD and it's a 10 year old Wii U.
  - agloe_dreams 4y ago
    >There's loads of laptops with RJ45 jacks that fold up to take up less space when not being used. I've had one, thing was pretty flimsy and required finagling to use. Meh. > Personally I find the choice of SD card slot puzzling Something like 90% of the photography market uses a Mac. I heard probably more hoopla about that SD card slot than anything else when it was announced.
  - djur 4y ago
    Regular SD cards are still common in professional cameras, and I heard a lot of loud griping from photographers when the built-in card reader was removed.
    - tcmart14 4y ago
      This is a confusing part for me since professional photographers are one of the demographics that Apple tries to target. Seems like they would have never gotten rid of it. Granted, I could also say that it may be ridiculous for cameras to still need SD cards in them. But it is easier for 1 smaller set of devices (Macbooks) to support the other (cameras) than all of the others to support the smaller subset of devices.
aquova 4y ago
I have a framework laptop, and one of the deciding reasons I bought one was due to the modular ports. I'll admit that 99% of the time, I leave a USB-A and USB-C ports in on each side, but the ability to move the ports to whichever side of the laptop I need, as well as having the ability to swap in ports that I only seldomly use is great. Another understated benefit is being able to use any expansion cards they add in the future. They didn't have ethernet ports at launch, but now I'm able to get one if I so need.

Dalewyn 4y ago

I imagine the point isn't for you to keep on switching the ports out every day. Rather, it's so everyone can get the ports they want with minimal overhead for Framework the company (fewer SKUs, less spare inventory, etc.). It's like LEGO: You can put together exactly what you want using exactly the bricks you want, and you aren't expected to take it all apart and build something new the next day just because you could either.

jefurii 4y ago
I occasioanlly set my Framework down in a place where it's more convenient to have power and/or HDMI on the other side and it's simple to rearrange the modules.
rhaway84773 4y ago
It’s also standardized, so you don’t have to only pick ports that Framework decides are valid. You can also add 3rd party ports of your own choosing.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
I think one model with the bog standard stuff and one with the modules is a good compromise, or will be when they're more established and can afford the overhead you correctly point out. Right now they're very much a startup, and so I agree with you that it makes sense for them as a company right now.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >bog standard stuff That's the question, though: What is "bog standard"? Apple will tell you bog standard is two USB-C ports. A tech enthusiast will tell you bog standard is at least 10 mixed USB-A and -C ports, at least three DisplayPorts, at least one ethernet jack, and a headphone jack. Jane Average over there will tell you bog standard is a power button. A DIYer will tell you bog standard is GPIO and serial. USB-IF will tell you bog standard is USB4.11 For Workgroups Revision 5 Type D 50gbps 2x4.
  - IYasha 4y ago
    There was one laptop made by ASUS. It had SO much connectivity in a 12" case no one attempted ever since. And it would be the best if not for poor battery life. But the battery was swappable. The model is U6Sg. If I could buy anything like that today (with good battery life and AMD processor), I'd be happy.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Pretty sure Jane Average would also include a charging port ;) Joking aside, to my mind bog standard is by definition not given by Apple, enthusiasts, hardware hackers, USB-IF, or someone who never needs a port ever. My mom is very tech illiterate and even she uses a cheap wireless mouse, and other USB stuff. It's obviously something Framework would have to research and think about. But I don't think it's unreasonable to say there is some definition of bog standard that should be able to serve 80% of customers. Where the 20% is made up of various niches that are happy to pay a premium for the modularity because they really need it.
  - djur 4y ago
    Well, the Framework doesn't give you most of those options. You get 4 total of any of the following: USB-A, USB-C, DisplayPort, HDMI, MicroSD, Ethernet. (In practice a USB-C is mandatory for charging.) Plus built-in headphone. If you want any more than that, or anything different, you're gonna need a USB dongle like any other laptop.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    At this point, for better or worse, and I know some may not like it... would be almost all USB-C. With thunderbolt, power delivery and video adapter options over the port, there's really not much reason to go otherwise, noting that some ports are not the same. One option might be to have a backplate adapter similar to ATX motherboards, where that just slots into the case itself attached to the motherboard... so Gen 3 could have 3x usb-c, 1 usb-a and a 4-pole headphone jack... Then all usb-c + headphone a generation after... but the horizontal spacing pre-defined like ATX backplane.
TomK32 4y ago
Bricklink list 76527 unique Lego parts, including Duplo. So much for the "fewer SKUs". There's also 15155 mini figures.
- cstrahan 4y ago
  Compare 76527 unique Lego parts to number of elements in the power set of those 76527 Lego parts — imagine if each combination also had its own skew. That’s the sort of comparison being made — providing simple components and letting the user combine them as they see fit means managing fewer SKUs than otherwise. This logic does not change with respect to the number of simple components — if Framework wanted to provide module for 76527 distinct peripherals, that’s 1 SKU for the laptop plus 76527 SKUs for the modules… which is a lot less than selling 2^76527 distinct laptops for every set of peripherals (leaving aside size constraints, and the fact that many people actually want more than one of the same peripheral). Additionally, fewer is fewer, regardless of scale. 999,999 of something is fewer than 1,000,000 of something. So yes, the "Lego approach" would mean fewer SKUs.
- aqfamnzc 4y ago
  I agree with your point, but generally when people say "like LEGO" they mean "modular". Not that you can build literally any shape the way you can with actual LEGO.
warner25 4y ago
My wife and I each got an 11th Gen Framework in late 2021, and I think it's mostly this - e.g. my wife wanted an HDMI port and I didn't - but I've also found reason to switch ports around a few times. It's certainly not everyday, but I've had a few different workspace arrangements where sometimes it was better to have my charging port on one side or the other; not strictly necessary, but nicer for cable management. Next month I might borrow my wife's HDMI port when I need to give a few presentations.

agloe_dreams 4y ago

This is pretty much my angle. My 14inch macbook pro has a power jack(magsafe), three Thunderbolt ports, an SD card slot, HDMI, and a really low-noise, high-power fantastic 3.5mm. About the only thing I really would ever want is ethernet but even then I probably would rather dock the machine over TB anywhere I would use that. It is just is so much better than plugging in 4 cables. (Side note: It's kinda surprising that mankind has not invented a smaller RJ45)

goosedragons 4y ago
There's loads of laptops with RJ45 jacks that fold up to take up less space when not being used. There were also PCMCIA ethernet cards where the jack pops out and you insert the cable downwards. I don't think Apple cares enough about ethernet on laptops anymore to bother. Personally I find the choice of SD card slot puzzling. USB A or ethernet would have been far more useful IMO. I have exactly one device with full fat SD and it's a 10 year old Wii U.
- agloe_dreams 4y ago
  >There's loads of laptops with RJ45 jacks that fold up to take up less space when not being used. I've had one, thing was pretty flimsy and required finagling to use. Meh. > Personally I find the choice of SD card slot puzzling Something like 90% of the photography market uses a Mac. I heard probably more hoopla about that SD card slot than anything else when it was announced.
- djur 4y ago
  Regular SD cards are still common in professional cameras, and I heard a lot of loud griping from photographers when the built-in card reader was removed.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    This is a confusing part for me since professional photographers are one of the demographics that Apple tries to target. Seems like they would have never gotten rid of it. Granted, I could also say that it may be ridiculous for cameras to still need SD cards in them. But it is easier for 1 smaller set of devices (Macbooks) to support the other (cameras) than all of the others to support the smaller subset of devices.

aquova 4y ago

I have a framework laptop, and one of the deciding reasons I bought one was due to the modular ports. I'll admit that 99% of the time, I leave a USB-A and USB-C ports in on each side, but the ability to move the ports to whichever side of the laptop I need, as well as having the ability to swap in ports that I only seldomly use is great. Another understated benefit is being able to use any expansion cards they add in the future. They didn't have ethernet ports at launch, but now I'm able to get one if I so need.