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I cycled for 10 years in London, and for the first year I jumped lights until I decided against it one day. I just didn't want to give people a reason to be ann

by ljf 4y ago

I cycled for 10 years in London, and for the first year I jumped lights until I decided against it one day. I just didn't want to give people a reason to be annoyed with me as the aggression people showed to cyclists was pretty high at the time. But I would always filter to the front of red traffic lights ready to take off. A number of taxis and dumper trucks used to jump red lights, either just running the light when it had just changed, crawling through, or just positioning themselves across the crossing and then going early or when they saw a gap. But most car drivers never spot this as they aren't at the front where they can see this happen daily. I stopped and watched a police fishing operation where they were looking for red light jumping cyclists, and I had to physically go over to the police to point out drivers that were also jumping reds in front of them, as they were so fixated on their 'job' of catching cyclists.

AdamN 4y ago
Red light jumping and 'creeping' into the crosswalk is a real sign of a reckless driver - so much more so than speeding.
_Wintermute 4y ago
It's amazing how temporary traffic lights at road works are treated as completely optional in London since motorists know there's no enforcement cameras. I've had a van driver lean on his horn and start harrassing me when I stopped at one when he was behind me.
switch007 4y ago
> I had to physically go over to the police to point out drivers that were also jumping reds in front of them, as they were so fixated on their 'job' of catching cyclists. Their boss likely knew. They just wanted to appease a certain group by tackling the cyclists. They can’t be accused of bias against cars if they spend money catching cyclists too. You have to be brain dead as a pedestrian or driver to not know that red light jumping by cars has been a big and increasing problem for a decade easily.
alias_neo 4y ago
Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? I've been a cyclist, motorcyclist and a driver. I've never jumped a red light on a bike. In the past 10 years of living in London I've seen hundreds of cyclists running red lights long after they've changed, or before they change back. I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light (until yesterday actually). Just yesterday I did see a taxi cross a junction on a red as it was about to change back to green, but while still red (how impatient can you be)? I don't cycle anymore, I was hit by cars 3 times when I wasn't at fault before I moved to London, and decided not to take my chances there. I'm always aware of cyclists and motorcyclists around me and will go out of my way to accommodate them, too many road users are blind to them, but I can't agree with red light running; if someone comes across the junction while its red for you because you decided to cross, and kills you, it's very much your fault, but they'll take the blame, or at least the burden, and you'll be dead. As for police fishing operations, I've seen them sitting on one-way streets ticketing cyclists and scooter users, which personally I think is a bit silly (especially in the case of this particular street).
- ljf 4y ago
  To be clear, I would rarely jump if the lights had just changed Red - more if I was approaching and the crossing was clear - at a pedestrian crossing if everyone who wanted to cross had passed, or at a cross roads type junction where there were no cars in motion, or their lights had just turned red, but ours hadn't yet turned green. Also if I was doing a left turn at a light though that was rarer given my route. Very rarely, if there was a jam and traffic was stationary across a crossing I would go, but again that wasn't a common one. Mainly I did it as it meant I could keep my speed and stay away from cars - if you come to a stop at a light (at the front of the queue) then you are accelerating from the front of the pack as the cars are itching to get by you - this way when they caught up with me and passed me at 30 (if they were lucky) I was already doing 20. As I said, I stopped relatively soon in my commuting career and just got better at holding road position, and at my own fitness so stopping and starting had less of an affect on me. Also slowly over the year traffic seemed to get more bike aware and less hectic. But I do understand why people do it, even if it does make all cyclists look bad. I was 'knocked off' (though not actually off) my bike 3 times, and all three was thankfully scary but not painful. Once I taxi passenger opened their door into the bike lane and nearly doored me, I was able to just skid into the door and shout so loud the passenger didn't actually get out so wasn't hurt, and twice drivers just turned left into my lane in 2 (or 3) lane traffic - luckily our speeds were similar - once I was able to keep myself up by hanging from the vans wing mirror, and once I was just knocked a bit. Horrible - but all helped me take the road space I needed and actively stop cars overtaking me when it was not safe (and inversely pulling to the side when possible to let more timid drivers pass).
nxkwkfhik 4y ago
Just walk across lights. That’s the beauty of cycling, you can magically turn into a pedestrian and do what the hell you like. Edit: I saw a guy do this at the bottom of Kingsland Road through a police trap. He clocked the police, hopped off and went right through the crossing. I was just behind and did the same. It was only once we got round the corner that I saw his face with a massive grin; police didn’t touch us.
cannam 4y ago
I was once on a London bus that got stopped by the police for jumping a red light. It was at Hyde Park Corner, heading north toward Park Lane - the light guarding the intersection with Knightsbridge turned red, the bus sailed through, and I think a nearby police car just happened to notice. Pulled the bus over and had a word with the driver, nothing more I think, but it was curiously reassuring. I agree with you (as a former cycle commuter too) that drivers in London jump the lights far more than most people realise. If you go out for a half-hour walk and pay attention, you're highly likely to see it at least once.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
I’ve never, ever seen a car run a red light at a pedestrian crossing in London. Both as a pedestrian and driver, I am confident that all cars will stop and keep to the red light. If anything, vehicles show an abundance of caution and assume a flashing yellow is the same as a solid red and yellow, and remain behind the line even when the crossing is clear. I regularly see cyclists ride through pedestrian crossings with pedestrians on them, which as a pedestrian is utterly terrifying - particularly when it happened when I was in a wheelchair, on crutches or with a walking stick (I had serious mobility issues a few years back). I have never seen a cyclist stop for a pedestrian waiting at a zebra crossing in London. I’ve seen it once in Manchester. I regularly see cyclists on pavements, even riding next to kerb-segregated cycle lanes. This is an offence the Highway Code is incredibly clear about. When a cyclist is doing over 20mph on a pavement coming towards me, it’s terrifying, again. When I am watching my speed in a 20 zone, I am rarely overtaken by a frustrated vehicle driver who thinks they know better, but I am often overtaken by cyclists who seem to think speed limits don’t apply to them. In 20 zones with high density of cyclists to pedestrians (Richmond Park, Bushy Park, and so on), this is scary to experience both as a driver and as a pedestrian. Your anecdata is yours, mine is mine, but I will not accept that cyclists are all about safety in London, and motorists are not. The perception of most non-cyclists in London is that cyclists consistently behave in ways dangerous to pedestrians and other traffic, and running red lights are just one of the factors in that. Yes, cars should give you time and space to move off, and I always do, but all the other behaviours I’ve described are common, dangerous, and inexcusable.
- soco 4y ago
  I can add my experiences in Switzerland: e-bike riders speeding on pedestrian lanes is a daily sighting. I have no idea about collision rates but they cannot go but up.
- nxkwkfhik 4y ago
  Ahh the old “let’s apply rules designed for cars to bicycles” fallacy Some of what you have said is correct but let’s make this clear: cycling across a pedestrian crossing at walking pace posses vastly less threat to human life than a car doing that would. Fundamental physics, momentum=mv Bicycle plus rider: 100kg Car: 1500kg That’s a 15x For a comparison, Human: 80kg Bicycle + rider: 100kg That’s 1.25x If we assume that risk is proportional to momentum, then that’s an 125% increase of threat from a bicycle vs a human (running at the same speed) and 1500% increase of threat from a car vs a bicycle. So to compare cars to bicycles doesn’t work, they pose a vastly reduced threat to human life va cars and in fact, cars pose more of a threat to cyclists than they do to pedestrians (I.e more cyclist die in car accidents that pedestrians).

by ljf 4y ago

AdamN 4y ago

Red light jumping and 'creeping' into the crosswalk is a real sign of a reckless driver - so much more so than speeding.

_Wintermute 4y ago

It's amazing how temporary traffic lights at road works are treated as completely optional in London since motorists know there's no enforcement cameras. I've had a van driver lean on his horn and start harrassing me when I stopped at one when he was behind me.

switch007 4y ago

> I had to physically go over to the police to point out drivers that were also jumping reds in front of them, as they were so fixated on their 'job' of catching cyclists. Their boss likely knew. They just wanted to appease a certain group by tackling the cyclists. They can’t be accused of bias against cars if they spend money catching cyclists too. You have to be brain dead as a pedestrian or driver to not know that red light jumping by cars has been a big and increasing problem for a decade easily.

alias_neo 4y ago

Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger? I've been a cyclist, motorcyclist and a driver. I've never jumped a red light on a bike. In the past 10 years of living in London I've seen hundreds of cyclists running red lights long after they've changed, or before they change back. I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light (until yesterday actually). Just yesterday I did see a taxi cross a junction on a red as it was about to change back to green, but while still red (how impatient can you be)? I don't cycle anymore, I was hit by cars 3 times when I wasn't at fault before I moved to London, and decided not to take my chances there. I'm always aware of cyclists and motorcyclists around me and will go out of my way to accommodate them, too many road users are blind to them, but I can't agree with red light running; if someone comes across the junction while its red for you because you decided to cross, and kills you, it's very much your fault, but they'll take the blame, or at least the burden, and you'll be dead. As for police fishing operations, I've seen them sitting on one-way streets ticketing cyclists and scooter users, which personally I think is a bit silly (especially in the case of this particular street).

ljf 4y ago
To be clear, I would rarely jump if the lights had just changed Red - more if I was approaching and the crossing was clear - at a pedestrian crossing if everyone who wanted to cross had passed, or at a cross roads type junction where there were no cars in motion, or their lights had just turned red, but ours hadn't yet turned green. Also if I was doing a left turn at a light though that was rarer given my route. Very rarely, if there was a jam and traffic was stationary across a crossing I would go, but again that wasn't a common one. Mainly I did it as it meant I could keep my speed and stay away from cars - if you come to a stop at a light (at the front of the queue) then you are accelerating from the front of the pack as the cars are itching to get by you - this way when they caught up with me and passed me at 30 (if they were lucky) I was already doing 20. As I said, I stopped relatively soon in my commuting career and just got better at holding road position, and at my own fitness so stopping and starting had less of an affect on me. Also slowly over the year traffic seemed to get more bike aware and less hectic. But I do understand why people do it, even if it does make all cyclists look bad. I was 'knocked off' (though not actually off) my bike 3 times, and all three was thankfully scary but not painful. Once I taxi passenger opened their door into the bike lane and nearly doored me, I was able to just skid into the door and shout so loud the passenger didn't actually get out so wasn't hurt, and twice drivers just turned left into my lane in 2 (or 3) lane traffic - luckily our speeds were similar - once I was able to keep myself up by hanging from the vans wing mirror, and once I was just knocked a bit. Horrible - but all helped me take the road space I needed and actively stop cars overtaking me when it was not safe (and inversely pulling to the side when possible to let more timid drivers pass).

nxkwkfhik 4y ago

Just walk across lights. That’s the beauty of cycling, you can magically turn into a pedestrian and do what the hell you like. Edit: I saw a guy do this at the bottom of Kingsland Road through a police trap. He clocked the police, hopped off and went right through the crossing. I was just behind and did the same. It was only once we got round the corner that I saw his face with a massive grin; police didn’t touch us.

cannam 4y ago

I was once on a London bus that got stopped by the police for jumping a red light. It was at Hyde Park Corner, heading north toward Park Lane - the light guarding the intersection with Knightsbridge turned red, the bus sailed through, and I think a nearby police car just happened to notice. Pulled the bus over and had a word with the driver, nothing more I think, but it was curiously reassuring. I agree with you (as a former cycle commuter too) that drivers in London jump the lights far more than most people realise. If you go out for a half-hour walk and pay attention, you're highly likely to see it at least once.

PaulRobinson 4y ago

I’ve never, ever seen a car run a red light at a pedestrian crossing in London. Both as a pedestrian and driver, I am confident that all cars will stop and keep to the red light. If anything, vehicles show an abundance of caution and assume a flashing yellow is the same as a solid red and yellow, and remain behind the line even when the crossing is clear. I regularly see cyclists ride through pedestrian crossings with pedestrians on them, which as a pedestrian is utterly terrifying - particularly when it happened when I was in a wheelchair, on crutches or with a walking stick (I had serious mobility issues a few years back). I have never seen a cyclist stop for a pedestrian waiting at a zebra crossing in London. I’ve seen it once in Manchester. I regularly see cyclists on pavements, even riding next to kerb-segregated cycle lanes. This is an offence the Highway Code is incredibly clear about. When a cyclist is doing over 20mph on a pavement coming towards me, it’s terrifying, again. When I am watching my speed in a 20 zone, I am rarely overtaken by a frustrated vehicle driver who thinks they know better, but I am often overtaken by cyclists who seem to think speed limits don’t apply to them. In 20 zones with high density of cyclists to pedestrians (Richmond Park, Bushy Park, and so on), this is scary to experience both as a driver and as a pedestrian. Your anecdata is yours, mine is mine, but I will not accept that cyclists are all about safety in London, and motorists are not. The perception of most non-cyclists in London is that cyclists consistently behave in ways dangerous to pedestrians and other traffic, and running red lights are just one of the factors in that. Yes, cars should give you time and space to move off, and I always do, but all the other behaviours I’ve described are common, dangerous, and inexcusable.

soco 4y ago
I can add my experiences in Switzerland: e-bike riders speeding on pedestrian lanes is a daily sighting. I have no idea about collision rates but they cannot go but up.
nxkwkfhik 4y ago
Ahh the old “let’s apply rules designed for cars to bicycles” fallacy Some of what you have said is correct but let’s make this clear: cycling across a pedestrian crossing at walking pace posses vastly less threat to human life than a car doing that would. Fundamental physics, momentum=mv Bicycle plus rider: 100kg Car: 1500kg That’s a 15x For a comparison, Human: 80kg Bicycle + rider: 100kg That’s 1.25x If we assume that risk is proportional to momentum, then that’s an 125% increase of threat from a bicycle vs a human (running at the same speed) and 1500% increase of threat from a car vs a bicycle. So to compare cars to bicycles doesn’t work, they pose a vastly reduced threat to human life va cars and in fact, cars pose more of a threat to cyclists than they do to pedestrians (I.e more cyclist die in car accidents that pedestrians).