7 ms·

The fundamental issue is that cyclists and motor vehicles sharing the same roadway is a recipe for disaster. Cars, trucks, and SUVs are just so much bigger and

The fundamental issue is that cyclists and motor vehicles sharing the same roadway is a recipe for disaster. Cars, trucks, and SUVs are just so much bigger and faster than bicycles. Bicycles sharing the road is stressful for both the cyclist and the driver. We really need dedicated cycling infrastructure with cyclists physically separated from motor vehicles with barriers.

ljf 4y ago
I used to be quite against this and just felt that drivers needed to learn to live with cyclists (I as I had) - until I went to Holland and witnessed properly funded cycling infrastructure. Cycling in Holland is an absolute pleasure, and despite the weather being just as damp as Britain, people cycle year round.
- AdamN 4y ago
  Yeah, the corollary would be roads where the pedestrian has to walk on the road and there is no separation. That does exist in extremely rural areas and very old town centers - both of which are mostly ok because they demand the car go extremely slow. Wherever there is a sidewalk there should also be a dedicated cycleway.
  - magicalhippo 4y ago
    When I was a kid I stayed at the family cabin with my grandparents, and we would routinely walk along the main road which had no sidewalk and barely any shoulder. It wasn't a problem at all, there weren't many cars and very few larger vehicles like trucks, trailers or busses. These days the road is super-busy, with large vehicles coming by all the time at full speed. I barely feel safe standing in the driveway. Back in the day there was no need for a sidewalk. These days I don't dare to walk to the "nearby" store without, hence I drive.
- realworldperson 4y ago
  [dead]
- memen 4y ago
  If Britain is the same as the Netherlands, the weather for cycling is not that bad: [0] https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/totaaloverzicht-van-10-meetjaren-het-is-volbracht/ https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/totaaloverzicht-van-...
  - ljf 4y ago
    It isn't that bad - but for 'most' people the idea of riding in the rain it what stops them - they wouldn't want to arrive at work with wet hair or clothes. Alternatively they worry about being sweaty or smelly in the summer. I was lucky that I had either great showers at work or at a gym - so cycled in commuter clothes and changed and dried at work into my work wear. But that wasn't always an option, but wasn't a deal breaker for me, but seems to be for a lot of people.
PaulRobinson 4y ago
In London there are plenty of cycle lanes. A lot of cyclists still ride on pavements or in the road. Red lights are often shared by both cycle lanes and vehicle lanes. Cars stop at reds more than 99.99% of the time. Cyclists less than 90% of the time.
- _Wintermute 4y ago
  That's easy to check, and very wrong. > (A Transport For London camera study of 7,500 cyclists at five junctions found in 2007 that, contrary to popular perception, most cyclists do not run reds: 84% of the cyclists stopped at red traffic lights
  - anthony_d 4y ago
    > That's easy to check, and very wrong. It looks a lot like you actually agreed with the parent. Was there a disagreement I missed?
    - _Wintermute 4y ago
      No you're correct, I misread. I thought the parent comment was saying 90% ignore red lights.

ljf 4y ago

I used to be quite against this and just felt that drivers needed to learn to live with cyclists (I as I had) - until I went to Holland and witnessed properly funded cycling infrastructure. Cycling in Holland is an absolute pleasure, and despite the weather being just as damp as Britain, people cycle year round.

AdamN 4y ago
Yeah, the corollary would be roads where the pedestrian has to walk on the road and there is no separation. That does exist in extremely rural areas and very old town centers - both of which are mostly ok because they demand the car go extremely slow. Wherever there is a sidewalk there should also be a dedicated cycleway.
- magicalhippo 4y ago
  When I was a kid I stayed at the family cabin with my grandparents, and we would routinely walk along the main road which had no sidewalk and barely any shoulder. It wasn't a problem at all, there weren't many cars and very few larger vehicles like trucks, trailers or busses. These days the road is super-busy, with large vehicles coming by all the time at full speed. I barely feel safe standing in the driveway. Back in the day there was no need for a sidewalk. These days I don't dare to walk to the "nearby" store without, hence I drive.
realworldperson 4y ago
[dead]
memen 4y ago
If Britain is the same as the Netherlands, the weather for cycling is not that bad: [0] https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/totaaloverzicht-van-10-meetjaren-het-is-volbracht/ https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/totaaloverzicht-van-...
- ljf 4y ago
  It isn't that bad - but for 'most' people the idea of riding in the rain it what stops them - they wouldn't want to arrive at work with wet hair or clothes. Alternatively they worry about being sweaty or smelly in the summer. I was lucky that I had either great showers at work or at a gym - so cycled in commuter clothes and changed and dried at work into my work wear. But that wasn't always an option, but wasn't a deal breaker for me, but seems to be for a lot of people.

PaulRobinson 4y ago

In London there are plenty of cycle lanes. A lot of cyclists still ride on pavements or in the road. Red lights are often shared by both cycle lanes and vehicle lanes. Cars stop at reds more than 99.99% of the time. Cyclists less than 90% of the time.

_Wintermute 4y ago
That's easy to check, and very wrong. > (A Transport For London camera study of 7,500 cyclists at five junctions found in 2007 that, contrary to popular perception, most cyclists do not run reds: 84% of the cyclists stopped at red traffic lights
- anthony_d 4y ago
  > That's easy to check, and very wrong. It looks a lot like you actually agreed with the parent. Was there a disagreement I missed?
  - _Wintermute 4y ago
    No you're correct, I misread. I thought the parent comment was saying 90% ignore red lights.