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I think it's true that the Amish deserve respect as craftspeople, but it's still important to maintain some critical distance. They are still deeply religious f

I think it's true that the Amish deserve respect as craftspeople, but it's still important to maintain some critical distance. They are still deeply religious folks, with orthodox views who cede a lot of control to their local pastor. I would not know much about it other than that they are very heterogeneous, but it appears that there is a steady stream of folks who want out, and those who exit get shunned by their previous communities.

gptgpp 4y ago
[flagged]
- mattnewton 4y ago
  > I mean, if Amish people want to have a society where (in most Amish subcultures), women are essentially uneducated broodmares that aren't encouraged to do anything that conflicts with popping out babies... Is that really that much worse than how our broader culture needs to import truckloads of immigrants to maintain healthy population levels? ..huh? It’s not like the US is importing Amish from other countries, we’re allowing people who want to immigrate to work here (albeit too slowly). I don’t get this argument. > Amish Elder to assign you a nice Amish woman This is so far from my own beliefs in individual liberty I’m not sure how to engage frankly
- BenFranklin100 4y ago
  This is an offensive comment. Those ‘truckloads of immigrants’ are people seeking a better life for themselves in a new country. Nearly all of us Americans are immigrants. Amish woman are more than ‘essentially uneducated broodmares as well.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  Your comment is sarcastic, right? > I mean really, so much anxiety over the Amish, who have they ever harmed? By the looks of it, women
- dang 4y ago
  We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our request to stop. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - carabiner 4y ago
    He might be blunt, but his accusations of the Amish are broadly accurate.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      Amish culture and community values are wildly varied.
    - dang 4y ago
      That's a separate question. Accuracy is good but it's not sufficient for a good HN comment. (Actually, if you think about it, being true isn't a necessary condition for a good HN comment either, since people need to be free to make mistakes. But I digress.) Edit: People sometimes make the argument that because they're "pointing out facts", whatever else they say or do is ok. This is not the case. Past explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20facts%20-related&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....
m463 4y ago
I thought when the amish reached adolescence they were given the ability to leave the community and investigate the world on their own before deciding if they wanted to join the church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
- yencabulator 4y ago
  What I've heard is that the decision to leave is, however, final. Your friends and even family will shun you for even small deviation from the norm. There are no backsies.
  - tmn 4y ago
    The trial period (rumspringa) is not final. This is a standard convention. If you then choose to leave, yes you will be shunned.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  Not every Amish community.
- orwin 4y ago
  Sadly, depending on the pastor, not everyone can go, especially introverts who do not have much friends or relations within the community. But some communities are very welcoming and open minded, and everyone can leave or join (temporarily at first). It really depends, I only know one community, influenced by the 70s pacifists movements, i really like them, but I know they aren't the majority.
carabiner 4y ago
This ex-Amish TikToker is incredible: https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 Some of his content is benign, but he also discusses the epidemic of child abuse (including sexual), rampant female illiteracy, and the general cruelty of Amish culture.
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  Isolated communities always end up that way. Whether it is the Amish or some 1970s hippie cult.
  - sorenjan 4y ago
    And Pitcairn island. This is one reason why I'm sceptical to Mars colonies. Far away from regular society, and it's reasonable to expect that people who are seeking out such remote living maybe doesn't function perfectly in all social situations. I think it has the capacity to end poorly, not just for technical reasons but for human reasons as well.
    - carlmr 4y ago
      I mean the same held for the American colonies. And I think it's still noticeable that Americans are different.
oliwarner 4y ago
Adults who choose this absolutely deserve respect, but religion and tradition should never be an excuse to limit your childrens' opportunities. Everything we do, from home to central government should be to enable not curtail. Rumspringa (where applicable) does some of this, but we all know what Rumspringa is actually for. It's a hormone-fuelled binge on life, not a focus on how the rest of the world works, day to day.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

gptgpp 4y ago

[flagged]

mattnewton 4y ago
> I mean, if Amish people want to have a society where (in most Amish subcultures), women are essentially uneducated broodmares that aren't encouraged to do anything that conflicts with popping out babies... Is that really that much worse than how our broader culture needs to import truckloads of immigrants to maintain healthy population levels? ..huh? It’s not like the US is importing Amish from other countries, we’re allowing people who want to immigrate to work here (albeit too slowly). I don’t get this argument. > Amish Elder to assign you a nice Amish woman This is so far from my own beliefs in individual liberty I’m not sure how to engage frankly
BenFranklin100 4y ago
This is an offensive comment. Those ‘truckloads of immigrants’ are people seeking a better life for themselves in a new country. Nearly all of us Americans are immigrants. Amish woman are more than ‘essentially uneducated broodmares as well.
nextaccountic 4y ago
Your comment is sarcastic, right? > I mean really, so much anxiety over the Amish, who have they ever harmed? By the looks of it, women
dang 4y ago
We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our request to stop. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- carabiner 4y ago
  He might be blunt, but his accusations of the Amish are broadly accurate.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    Amish culture and community values are wildly varied.
  - dang 4y ago
    That's a separate question. Accuracy is good but it's not sufficient for a good HN comment. (Actually, if you think about it, being true isn't a necessary condition for a good HN comment either, since people need to be free to make mistakes. But I digress.) Edit: People sometimes make the argument that because they're "pointing out facts", whatever else they say or do is ok. This is not the case. Past explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20facts%20-related&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

m463 4y ago

I thought when the amish reached adolescence they were given the ability to leave the community and investigate the world on their own before deciding if they wanted to join the church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

yencabulator 4y ago
What I've heard is that the decision to leave is, however, final. Your friends and even family will shun you for even small deviation from the norm. There are no backsies.
- tmn 4y ago
  The trial period (rumspringa) is not final. This is a standard convention. If you then choose to leave, yes you will be shunned.
deafpolygon 4y ago
Not every Amish community.
orwin 4y ago
Sadly, depending on the pastor, not everyone can go, especially introverts who do not have much friends or relations within the community. But some communities are very welcoming and open minded, and everyone can leave or join (temporarily at first). It really depends, I only know one community, influenced by the 70s pacifists movements, i really like them, but I know they aren't the majority.

carabiner 4y ago

This ex-Amish TikToker is incredible: https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 Some of his content is benign, but he also discusses the epidemic of child abuse (including sexual), rampant female illiteracy, and the general cruelty of Amish culture.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago
Isolated communities always end up that way. Whether it is the Amish or some 1970s hippie cult.
- sorenjan 4y ago
  And Pitcairn island. This is one reason why I'm sceptical to Mars colonies. Far away from regular society, and it's reasonable to expect that people who are seeking out such remote living maybe doesn't function perfectly in all social situations. I think it has the capacity to end poorly, not just for technical reasons but for human reasons as well.
  - carlmr 4y ago
    I mean the same held for the American colonies. And I think it's still noticeable that Americans are different.

oliwarner 4y ago

Adults who choose this absolutely deserve respect, but religion and tradition should never be an excuse to limit your childrens' opportunities. Everything we do, from home to central government should be to enable not curtail. Rumspringa (where applicable) does some of this, but we all know what Rumspringa is actually for. It's a hormone-fuelled binge on life, not a focus on how the rest of the world works, day to day.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]