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FWIW As a US citizen I feel similarly. The switching cost feels too high to move, as I can't really see myself living somewhere other than the West Coast (famil

FWIW As a US citizen I feel similarly. The switching cost feels too high to move, as I can't really see myself living somewhere other than the West Coast (family, friends etc) It's a shame humans don't have more empathy and sympathy for each other, and that governments have been so obviously co-opted by the wealthy and powerful for their own benefit. One of the things that does make me feel better is being more involved in my neighborhood and local politics, where occasionally things you do can have a real impact. (For example I got a stop sign installed on my street, people still speed but usually they'll stop at it, making the neighborhood a tiny bit safer)

perardi 4y ago
I am curious what country you could move to that isn’t co-opted by the wealthy and powerful. Sure isn’t Canada. Sure isn’t anywhere in the EU. Super-duper-sure it isn’t anywhere in Asia.
- echelon 4y ago
  Point to a single time in history this hasn't been the case. Things are a lot better now than they used to be. The only thing that has really changed is that the post-war American boom is over. Cheap labor, cheap money, cheap everything has returned to baseline and reached the costs felt elsewhere in the industrialized world.
  - G_z9 4y ago
    Things aren’t better at all. People say this because we have better technology, medicine, etc. but there was never a time in the past when humans had the life sucked out of them as they do now. We are raised inside boxes, our whole lives elapse inside boxes staring at screens and our social and emotional brain networks atrophy, leaving us damaged and hollow. Like zombies. There is no escaping the state. The law is absolute, there is no chance of escape or starting over. There is no land that is mysterious, the world has been collapsed. There’s no mystery in the world compared to before. AI gets better by the month and now most people can’t rationalize or ignore it: humans will face obsolescence soon. This is bad not just for the obvious reasons. We ingest chemicals and environmental contaminants that make us extremely sick. People are keeling over from heart attacks, obesity much more than they used to. I’ve read a lot of history and I would much rather live in 1720 than 2020.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  I don't know honestly, never been to any of these places and after moving around several times within the US I realize how nice it is to just be setted in one place, but here's what I would consider: Netherlands (I really like biking), Germany (Cologne seems like a nice vibe), France (Probably Paris, Food obviously, but I also really appreciate people's willingness to protest stuff)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > Probably Paris Paris is probably one of the worst places to live in Europe. Looks nice on postcards and it's nice to visit when you never live there, though.
    - amrocha 4y ago
      I like it, and especially compared to the US it's a huge upgrade
      - ekianjo 4y ago
        The US is a single place? I did not know that.
        Jonnax 4y ago
        It's funny that you generalised a region of 12.2 million but then is offended by someone generalising the US. You've repeated a cliche about the city. Did you live there? Anything particular? That made you decide: "never live there, though"
        gcoakes 4y ago
        Wouldn't you have said, "The US are," if you actually believed that?
        amrocha 4y ago
rayiner 4y ago
Where would you move, and for what? The “wealthy and powerful” enjoy similar if not better corporate and investment tax rates in most of Western Europe as on the west coast of the US. The social services those countries have that we don’t are largely paid for by the middle and upper middle class, not the “wealthy and powerful.”
- Retric 4y ago
  Everywhere has problems, it’s less about perfection than simply being a better option. I’ve generally considered Canada the best option for a while. English speaking, low crime, same time zone with family, etc. New Zealand, or one of the Nordic countries aren’t that far behind. Australia, England, and Western Europe etc are much lower, but still have plenty going for them. The biggest thing America has going for it is my friends and family happen to live here.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Crime rates are a city by city and neighborhood by neighborhood issue. Most of the USA is very safe; my city has zero murders most years. The statistics are thrown off by a few neighborhoods in a few cities like Chicago that have degenerated into third-world war zones. While that's a terrible situation and we need to fix it, most HN users can easily avoid those places.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Even the “safe” parts of the US aren’t all that safe. Ontario which includes Canada’s largest city and 38% of the population had a lower average murder rate between 2016 and 2020 than every single US state but New Hampshire. Quebec population 8.5 million is significantly lower. These statistics aren’t completely equivalent due to various factors, but it’s close enough for reasonable comparisons.
      - refurb 4y ago
        You’re comparing a rate - murders over population, of a province with a vast rural population with few murders to US cities where murders are concentrated. Edit: I'm an idiot and can't read.
nivenkos 4y ago
Europe is far worse for everything being designed to serve the wealthy though. Income tax is 40+% and VAT usually 25% so you lose so much income to the state. Meanwhile there is often no property or inheritance tax, and capital gains tax much lower than income tax, so wealthy aristocrats and landowners pay a far, far lower amount of tax proportionally. It's just that the wealthy in the US are mainly industrialists, whereas in Europe they're landowners and aristocrats.

perardi 4y ago

I am curious what country you could move to that isn’t co-opted by the wealthy and powerful. Sure isn’t Canada. Sure isn’t anywhere in the EU. Super-duper-sure it isn’t anywhere in Asia.

echelon 4y ago
Point to a single time in history this hasn't been the case. Things are a lot better now than they used to be. The only thing that has really changed is that the post-war American boom is over. Cheap labor, cheap money, cheap everything has returned to baseline and reached the costs felt elsewhere in the industrialized world.
- G_z9 4y ago
  Things aren’t better at all. People say this because we have better technology, medicine, etc. but there was never a time in the past when humans had the life sucked out of them as they do now. We are raised inside boxes, our whole lives elapse inside boxes staring at screens and our social and emotional brain networks atrophy, leaving us damaged and hollow. Like zombies. There is no escaping the state. The law is absolute, there is no chance of escape or starting over. There is no land that is mysterious, the world has been collapsed. There’s no mystery in the world compared to before. AI gets better by the month and now most people can’t rationalize or ignore it: humans will face obsolescence soon. This is bad not just for the obvious reasons. We ingest chemicals and environmental contaminants that make us extremely sick. People are keeling over from heart attacks, obesity much more than they used to. I’ve read a lot of history and I would much rather live in 1720 than 2020.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
I don't know honestly, never been to any of these places and after moving around several times within the US I realize how nice it is to just be setted in one place, but here's what I would consider: Netherlands (I really like biking), Germany (Cologne seems like a nice vibe), France (Probably Paris, Food obviously, but I also really appreciate people's willingness to protest stuff)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > Probably Paris Paris is probably one of the worst places to live in Europe. Looks nice on postcards and it's nice to visit when you never live there, though.
  - amrocha 4y ago
    I like it, and especially compared to the US it's a huge upgrade
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      The US is a single place? I did not know that.
      - Jonnax 4y ago
        It's funny that you generalised a region of 12.2 million but then is offended by someone generalising the US. You've repeated a cliche about the city. Did you live there? Anything particular? That made you decide: "never live there, though"
      - gcoakes 4y ago
        Wouldn't you have said, "The US are," if you actually believed that?
      - amrocha 4y ago

rayiner 4y ago

Where would you move, and for what? The “wealthy and powerful” enjoy similar if not better corporate and investment tax rates in most of Western Europe as on the west coast of the US. The social services those countries have that we don’t are largely paid for by the middle and upper middle class, not the “wealthy and powerful.”

Retric 4y ago
Everywhere has problems, it’s less about perfection than simply being a better option. I’ve generally considered Canada the best option for a while. English speaking, low crime, same time zone with family, etc. New Zealand, or one of the Nordic countries aren’t that far behind. Australia, England, and Western Europe etc are much lower, but still have plenty going for them. The biggest thing America has going for it is my friends and family happen to live here.
- nradov 4y ago
  Crime rates are a city by city and neighborhood by neighborhood issue. Most of the USA is very safe; my city has zero murders most years. The statistics are thrown off by a few neighborhoods in a few cities like Chicago that have degenerated into third-world war zones. While that's a terrible situation and we need to fix it, most HN users can easily avoid those places.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Even the “safe” parts of the US aren’t all that safe. Ontario which includes Canada’s largest city and 38% of the population had a lower average murder rate between 2016 and 2020 than every single US state but New Hampshire. Quebec population 8.5 million is significantly lower. These statistics aren’t completely equivalent due to various factors, but it’s close enough for reasonable comparisons.
    - refurb 4y ago
      You’re comparing a rate - murders over population, of a province with a vast rural population with few murders to US cities where murders are concentrated. Edit: I'm an idiot and can't read.

nivenkos 4y ago

Europe is far worse for everything being designed to serve the wealthy though. Income tax is 40+% and VAT usually 25% so you lose so much income to the state. Meanwhile there is often no property or inheritance tax, and capital gains tax much lower than income tax, so wealthy aristocrats and landowners pay a far, far lower amount of tax proportionally. It's just that the wealthy in the US are mainly industrialists, whereas in Europe they're landowners and aristocrats.