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>>are we really better off because of it? Is this....a trick question? Of course we are. Undeniably so.

by gambiting 4y ago

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Are you just speaking from a position of not needing this chance when you were a teen?
- gambiting 4y ago
  I also didn't need to work in a sweatshop as a kid yet I can pretty confidently say those are a bad idea.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    A privileged comment, and very condescending. Teens working to make their own money to get out of whatever situation they are in is a good thing, not a bad one. Better to work at McDoanld's when you are 16 then when you are 26. But from what you guys are saying, you prefer the latter, and I find it extremely distasteful.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      >>Teens working to make their own money to get out of whatever situation they are in is a good thing, not a bad one. You are looking at it from the wrong perspective - it's not about teens being able to make a little money working at McDonalds. It's about letting companies use cheap labour because they know teens aren't in the position to demand good pay and/or benefits. It drags the entire society down, just so you can say teens have the opportunity to work - and for what? Under 18s should stay in full time education, not work in fast food. >>But from what you guys are saying, you prefer the latter, and I find it extremely distasteful. I find it extremely distatestul that you seem to prefer a society where teens are part of the labour force to a society where they aren't, so I guess we won't come to an agreement.
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        > I find it extremely distatestul that you seem to prefer a society where teens are part of the labour force to a society where they aren't, so I guess we won't come to an agreement. You are simply speaking from a position of privilege. The distasteful part I find is that you would refuse them agency to make their lives better and rather they would just wallow in poverty. If you had your way, I would be working for McDonalds rather than a FAANG today. And that is why I'm strongly against this kind of "save the teenagers by harming them" kind of thinking. Jobs for teenagers develop independence, time management skills, discipline, and a way to improve their situation when society fails. And if you want to wait for society to fix all ills, well, that would be nice, but for the rest of us, we would like to have more say in our destiny.
        gambiting 4y ago
        >>The distasteful part I find is that you would refuse them agency to make their lives better and rather they would just wallow in poverty. Again, you are looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not about denying teens their independence, it's not even about "saving them" as you put it. This is 100% about denying companies access to the teenage labour pool, it shouldn't exist, they shouldn't need it, and any business that relies on it should cease. If you do allow it, you basically skew the entire labour market, dragging down the society - let's say that yes, you are an adult in need, who has fallen on hard times. Why should mcdonalds employ you, when they can employ a 16 year old, pay them less and offer them zero benefits. You've screwed yourself, because you want to give teens some fake "independence". >>Jobs for teenagers develop independence, time management skills, discipline, and a way to improve their situation when society fails. Yes, because the rest of the world where working until you're 18 is not allowed is just full of morons who have never developed any of those skills, you're right /s. >>but for the rest of us, we would like to have more say in our destiny. It's incredible to me that to you "having a say in your destiny" is allowing teenagers work for a corporation like mcdonald. It's like reading some sci-fi.

>>are we really better off because of it? Is this....a trick question? Of course we are. Undeniably so.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Are you just speaking from a position of not needing this chance when you were a teen?

gambiting 4y ago
I also didn't need to work in a sweatshop as a kid yet I can pretty confidently say those are a bad idea.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  A privileged comment, and very condescending. Teens working to make their own money to get out of whatever situation they are in is a good thing, not a bad one. Better to work at McDoanld's when you are 16 then when you are 26. But from what you guys are saying, you prefer the latter, and I find it extremely distasteful.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>Teens working to make their own money to get out of whatever situation they are in is a good thing, not a bad one. You are looking at it from the wrong perspective - it's not about teens being able to make a little money working at McDonalds. It's about letting companies use cheap labour because they know teens aren't in the position to demand good pay and/or benefits. It drags the entire society down, just so you can say teens have the opportunity to work - and for what? Under 18s should stay in full time education, not work in fast food. >>But from what you guys are saying, you prefer the latter, and I find it extremely distasteful. I find it extremely distatestul that you seem to prefer a society where teens are part of the labour force to a society where they aren't, so I guess we won't come to an agreement.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      > I find it extremely distatestul that you seem to prefer a society where teens are part of the labour force to a society where they aren't, so I guess we won't come to an agreement. You are simply speaking from a position of privilege. The distasteful part I find is that you would refuse them agency to make their lives better and rather they would just wallow in poverty. If you had your way, I would be working for McDonalds rather than a FAANG today. And that is why I'm strongly against this kind of "save the teenagers by harming them" kind of thinking. Jobs for teenagers develop independence, time management skills, discipline, and a way to improve their situation when society fails. And if you want to wait for society to fix all ills, well, that would be nice, but for the rest of us, we would like to have more say in our destiny.
      - gambiting 4y ago
        >>The distasteful part I find is that you would refuse them agency to make their lives better and rather they would just wallow in poverty. Again, you are looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not about denying teens their independence, it's not even about "saving them" as you put it. This is 100% about denying companies access to the teenage labour pool, it shouldn't exist, they shouldn't need it, and any business that relies on it should cease. If you do allow it, you basically skew the entire labour market, dragging down the society - let's say that yes, you are an adult in need, who has fallen on hard times. Why should mcdonalds employ you, when they can employ a 16 year old, pay them less and offer them zero benefits. You've screwed yourself, because you want to give teens some fake "independence". >>Jobs for teenagers develop independence, time management skills, discipline, and a way to improve their situation when society fails. Yes, because the rest of the world where working until you're 18 is not allowed is just full of morons who have never developed any of those skills, you're right /s. >>but for the rest of us, we would like to have more say in our destiny. It's incredible to me that to you "having a say in your destiny" is allowing teenagers work for a corporation like mcdonald. It's like reading some sci-fi.