7 ms·

Jailbreaking Is Not A Crime

107 points by there 15y ago

phzbOx 15y ago
In theory, I agree. In practice, I've realized that most of the jailbreaking phones/tablets are used to download illegal applications and/or without paying. I know this is a somewhat contrived statement, but this is from what I've seen in company/university/engineering departments I've worked/studied. Note: I myself had to jailbreak my iphone to install spotify (and asked a friend to pay for it since he's outside of Canada). For some reasons, spotify is illegal here. (Yes, I know, I illegally downloaded an illegal application to legally download/listen to music).
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  Even if 100% of the uses were illegal, this is an issue of principal. When I buy a gadget, I didn't lease it, I bought it. It is mine. As such, I shouldn't have to worry I might go to jail (!!) for modifying my device in a way that doesn't impact anybody else.
  - stcredzero 15y ago
    this is an issue of principal. principle
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  Very few of the applications available on Cydia are "illegal", they're just banned from the App Store by Apple. Similarly, there's nothing illegal about linux, but you'll have to jailbreak your ps3 to install it.
- postfuturist 15y ago
  I used a jailbroken iPhone for 2 years, I never once pirated an application, I still purchased plenty of apps from Apple's dumb app store and a few from Cydia. Mostly, I just used it to "background" apps before that was a built-in feature.
- rsynnott 15y ago
  > illegally downloaded an illegal application to legally download/listen to music You mean to _illegally_ download/listen to music; there's no license in your region.
- reitzensteinm 15y ago
  Most cars with performance tuning are used to speed on roads, but it should be and is still legal.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
postfuturist 15y ago
This is a basic freedom issue. The freedom to run software I control on devices I own allows me to be free in how I share and protect my own private information. Apple and Microsoft are trending toward making it more difficult and less legal to run alternative operating systems or unapproved 3rd party software on their platforms. It has to be fought tooth and nail. Fight it legally, and fight it with your pocketbook.
- maeon3 15y ago
  Your freedom to own your smart phone will disappear eventually when Hollywood figures out you didn't actually buy your phone, you are paying a monthly service which pays down your phone, an unspecified price. A percentage of which should go straight to Hollywood.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    It's a neat theory, except I did buy my phone.
  - ignoreme 15y ago
    Where I live you can walk into a shop, buy a smart phone, then pop in a sim card and be off. Can you not do this in the US? You don't pay any monthly service and I don't see how the carrier you have chosen to buy a sim card from has any basis for claiming that the phone I'm using is somehow not owned by me. Since I purchased my first mobile phone around ~11 years ago this is how I have always done it.
    - fpgeek 15y ago
      You can do that in the US, but it isn't common because of carrier subsidies. Even worse, sometimes when you pay full price for a phone you still wind up with something that is carrier-locked anyway. Plus there are all sorts of technical incompatibilities (e.g. AT&T vs T-Mobile 3G bands) even if your phone is otherwise unlocked. And so on...
      - 15y ago
losethos 15y ago
My jail is CIA or something. Fucken evil parents are CIA. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\YANKEE.TXT eagerly together, that the knight of the turret was soon smitten down, horse and man, stark dead--" "_Another_ horse gone; I tell you it is a custom that ought to be broken up. I don't see how people with any feeling can applaud and support it." . . . . "So these two knights came together with great random--" I saw that I had been asleep and missed a chapter, but I didn't say anything. I judged that the Irish knight was in trouble with the visitors by this time, and this turned
sehugg 15y ago
Copyright "Czar" Victoria Espinel laid out a roadmap that includes: Authorize DHS (including its component CBP) to share pre-seizure information about, and samples of, products and devices with rightholders to help DHS to determine whether the products are infringing or the devices are circumvention devices http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/15/concrete-steps-congress-can-take-protect-americas-intellectual-property http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/15/concrete-steps-con... Basically, giving Hollywood veto rights on anything imported into the country that can be used for jailbreaking. Sounds like we are in danger of losing DMCA jailbreaking protections.
wavephorm 15y ago
Jailbreaking does unlock a lot of functionality that should be in a PC. Being able to SSH into the system and use unix tools opens a lot of possibilities. Just being able to rsync music over wifi to my iPod and scrapping iTunes is worth it. Apple's underlying Darwin system works great on a mobile device. I don't own an Android, but afaik it's underlying Linux system is not as robust as Darwin. So where else do you go for a Linux/Unix based smartphone/tablet? Where are the Linux tablets, and where is the support from the Linux community for such hardware?
- orangecat 15y ago
  I don't own an Android, but afaik it's underlying Linux system is not as robust as Darwin. What are you basing that on? You can easily install Unix tools on Android devices. Here's a complete development environment that doesn't even require rooting: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spartacuside https://market.android.com/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spart...
  - wavephorm 15y ago
    I've had an impression that because of Android's abstractions you didn't have the same "bare metal" access, such that scripting languages have to be run inside a container app: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
    - guelo 15y ago
      Your impression is wrong, you can get access to the full Linux shell.
    - fpgeek 15y ago
      It depends on what you want to do. Scripting Layer for Android is about letting scripting languages access Android APIs and services. In that case, you need some sort of container / runtime to talk to the rest of the Android/Dalvik world, but there's nothing that prevents you from getting at the bare metal, if that's what you want to do.
jdietrich 15y ago
This is why geeks should be required to run things past an English major before talking to normal human beings. If we call a thing "jailbreaking", we're going to be battling negative perceptions forever. We're trying to explain to people who really don't care that they should take time out of their day to help legalize something called "jailbreaking". The RIAA, MPAA and ESA would struggle to dream up a more dubious name if they were embarking on a spin campaign to criminalise it outright. Why couldn't we have called it "derestricting" or "liberating" or something? Why couldn't we have chosen a positive, all-American sort of name? I know, I know, these are our devices and we're having our freedoms taken from us, so we're totally like POWs, not criminals. We're the good kind of escaped prisoner. Now explain that to my mother in a few short words while Bill O'Reilly accuses you of supporting Al-Qaeda. For a bunch of geniuses, we do some really dumb things.
- untog 15y ago
  Yep. Same thing with "hacking" and "hackathons". Whenever I tell non-techies I'm going to a hackathon they think I'm going to break into someone's network, or something.
  - marcomonteiro 15y ago
    We can blame Hollywood and the media for perverting the word hacker, but jailbreaking and the negative connotations it can provoke is our own fault.
- jerf 15y ago
  I'm not sure it's as bad as you think. The cell phone industry and the carriers are the ones who built the jail, and the inmate is you. It is probably worth making sure that nuance is communicated, but it's a powerful image. If you're not a criminal, why are you in jail?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    The problem is that, to the uninformed, that information is not obvious from the term.
grannyg00se 15y ago
I prefer buying devices that don't come with the proverbial handcuffs.
- marcomonteiro 15y ago
  Like Android devices? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snide either. I just get a little tired of these arguments when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Every modern smartphone and tablet that I know of comes with some form of "proverbial handcuffs" to varying degrees. Whether it's jailbreaking or rooting, there's no difference.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    Official bootloader unlocks [1] are different and this is exactly why. If the devices you care about have official unlocks, you're not personally affected by this DMCA exception (no matter what you want to do to your device software). If they don't, there's some DMCA-defined circumvention along the way to some things you might want to do and you should pay close attention to this particular rulemaking... [1] Nexus devices, most Sony Ericsson phones, many HTC phones, soon to include the ASUS Transformer Prime, ...
yason 15y ago
It should be a crime to produce things that can be "jailbroken" and call that activity "jailbreaking" instead of fixing.

107 points by there 15y ago

In theory, I agree. In practice, I've realized that most of the jailbreaking phones/tablets are used to download illegal applications and/or without paying. I know this is a somewhat contrived statement, but this is from what I've seen in company/university/engineering departments I've worked/studied. Note: I myself had to jailbreak my iphone to install spotify (and asked a friend to pay for it since he's outside of Canada). For some reasons, spotify is illegal here. (Yes, I know, I illegally downloaded an illegal application to legally download/listen to music).

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
Even if 100% of the uses were illegal, this is an issue of principal. When I buy a gadget, I didn't lease it, I bought it. It is mine. As such, I shouldn't have to worry I might go to jail (!!) for modifying my device in a way that doesn't impact anybody else.
- stcredzero 15y ago
  this is an issue of principal. principle
redthrowaway 15y ago
Very few of the applications available on Cydia are "illegal", they're just banned from the App Store by Apple. Similarly, there's nothing illegal about linux, but you'll have to jailbreak your ps3 to install it.
postfuturist 15y ago
I used a jailbroken iPhone for 2 years, I never once pirated an application, I still purchased plenty of apps from Apple's dumb app store and a few from Cydia. Mostly, I just used it to "background" apps before that was a built-in feature.
rsynnott 15y ago
> illegally downloaded an illegal application to legally download/listen to music You mean to _illegally_ download/listen to music; there's no license in your region.
reitzensteinm 15y ago
Most cars with performance tuning are used to speed on roads, but it should be and is still legal.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

postfuturist 15y ago

This is a basic freedom issue. The freedom to run software I control on devices I own allows me to be free in how I share and protect my own private information. Apple and Microsoft are trending toward making it more difficult and less legal to run alternative operating systems or unapproved 3rd party software on their platforms. It has to be fought tooth and nail. Fight it legally, and fight it with your pocketbook.

maeon3 15y ago
Your freedom to own your smart phone will disappear eventually when Hollywood figures out you didn't actually buy your phone, you are paying a monthly service which pays down your phone, an unspecified price. A percentage of which should go straight to Hollywood.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  It's a neat theory, except I did buy my phone.
- ignoreme 15y ago
  Where I live you can walk into a shop, buy a smart phone, then pop in a sim card and be off. Can you not do this in the US? You don't pay any monthly service and I don't see how the carrier you have chosen to buy a sim card from has any basis for claiming that the phone I'm using is somehow not owned by me. Since I purchased my first mobile phone around ~11 years ago this is how I have always done it.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    You can do that in the US, but it isn't common because of carrier subsidies. Even worse, sometimes when you pay full price for a phone you still wind up with something that is carrier-locked anyway. Plus there are all sorts of technical incompatibilities (e.g. AT&T vs T-Mobile 3G bands) even if your phone is otherwise unlocked. And so on...
    - 15y ago

losethos 15y ago

My jail is CIA or something. Fucken evil parents are CIA. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\YANKEE.TXT eagerly together, that the knight of the turret was soon smitten down, horse and man, stark dead--" "_Another_ horse gone; I tell you it is a custom that ought to be broken up. I don't see how people with any feeling can applaud and support it." . . . . "So these two knights came together with great random--" I saw that I had been asleep and missed a chapter, but I didn't say anything. I judged that the Irish knight was in trouble with the visitors by this time, and this turned

sehugg 15y ago

Copyright "Czar" Victoria Espinel laid out a roadmap that includes: Authorize DHS (including its component CBP) to share pre-seizure information about, and samples of, products and devices with rightholders to help DHS to determine whether the products are infringing or the devices are circumvention devices http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/15/concrete-steps-congress-can-take-protect-americas-intellectual-property http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/15/concrete-steps-con... Basically, giving Hollywood veto rights on anything imported into the country that can be used for jailbreaking. Sounds like we are in danger of losing DMCA jailbreaking protections.

wavephorm 15y ago

Jailbreaking does unlock a lot of functionality that should be in a PC. Being able to SSH into the system and use unix tools opens a lot of possibilities. Just being able to rsync music over wifi to my iPod and scrapping iTunes is worth it. Apple's underlying Darwin system works great on a mobile device. I don't own an Android, but afaik it's underlying Linux system is not as robust as Darwin. So where else do you go for a Linux/Unix based smartphone/tablet? Where are the Linux tablets, and where is the support from the Linux community for such hardware?

orangecat 15y ago
I don't own an Android, but afaik it's underlying Linux system is not as robust as Darwin. What are you basing that on? You can easily install Unix tools on Android devices. Here's a complete development environment that doesn't even require rooting: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spartacuside https://market.android.com/details?id=com.spartacusrex.spart...
- wavephorm 15y ago
  I've had an impression that because of Android's abstractions you didn't have the same "bare metal" access, such that scripting languages have to be run inside a container app: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
  - guelo 15y ago
    Your impression is wrong, you can get access to the full Linux shell.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    It depends on what you want to do. Scripting Layer for Android is about letting scripting languages access Android APIs and services. In that case, you need some sort of container / runtime to talk to the rest of the Android/Dalvik world, but there's nothing that prevents you from getting at the bare metal, if that's what you want to do.

jdietrich 15y ago

This is why geeks should be required to run things past an English major before talking to normal human beings. If we call a thing "jailbreaking", we're going to be battling negative perceptions forever. We're trying to explain to people who really don't care that they should take time out of their day to help legalize something called "jailbreaking". The RIAA, MPAA and ESA would struggle to dream up a more dubious name if they were embarking on a spin campaign to criminalise it outright. Why couldn't we have called it "derestricting" or "liberating" or something? Why couldn't we have chosen a positive, all-American sort of name? I know, I know, these are our devices and we're having our freedoms taken from us, so we're totally like POWs, not criminals. We're the good kind of escaped prisoner. Now explain that to my mother in a few short words while Bill O'Reilly accuses you of supporting Al-Qaeda. For a bunch of geniuses, we do some really dumb things.

untog 15y ago
Yep. Same thing with "hacking" and "hackathons". Whenever I tell non-techies I'm going to a hackathon they think I'm going to break into someone's network, or something.
- marcomonteiro 15y ago
  We can blame Hollywood and the media for perverting the word hacker, but jailbreaking and the negative connotations it can provoke is our own fault.
jerf 15y ago
I'm not sure it's as bad as you think. The cell phone industry and the carriers are the ones who built the jail, and the inmate is you. It is probably worth making sure that nuance is communicated, but it's a powerful image. If you're not a criminal, why are you in jail?
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  The problem is that, to the uninformed, that information is not obvious from the term.

grannyg00se 15y ago

I prefer buying devices that don't come with the proverbial handcuffs.

marcomonteiro 15y ago
Like Android devices? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snide either. I just get a little tired of these arguments when it comes to smartphones and tablets. Every modern smartphone and tablet that I know of comes with some form of "proverbial handcuffs" to varying degrees. Whether it's jailbreaking or rooting, there's no difference.
- fpgeek 15y ago
  Official bootloader unlocks [1] are different and this is exactly why. If the devices you care about have official unlocks, you're not personally affected by this DMCA exception (no matter what you want to do to your device software). If they don't, there's some DMCA-defined circumvention along the way to some things you might want to do and you should pay close attention to this particular rulemaking... [1] Nexus devices, most Sony Ericsson phones, many HTC phones, soon to include the ASUS Transformer Prime, ...

yason 15y ago

It should be a crime to produce things that can be "jailbroken" and call that activity "jailbreaking" instead of fixing.