4 ms·

Really hope it takes of, but I have a sneaking suspicion that at least in USA we will see a huge battle to ensure this does not hit the shelves or its relegated

by 0dayz 4y ago

Really hope it takes of, but I have a sneaking suspicion that at least in USA we will see a huge battle to ensure this does not hit the shelves or its relegated so far away from the other diary products. Since you got 3 big industries to fight against: * farmers that rely on cows * milk brands that have deep pockets and has the government involved beyond regulation * non-animal diary companies (probably the least hostile one)

nonethewiser 4y ago
I just don’t think it will be popular. It’s just going to be seen as “fake dairy” which will have limited appeal. Don’t need any conspiracy theories to explain it.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  As far as I'm concerned, you can't have dairy with no cow. Dairy-free faux-dairy products should market themselves for what they are instead of lying.
  - BreakfastB0b 4y ago
    Meaning is use. “Milk” is a fuzzy collection of properties and use cases. Which is why when you say “coconut milk” or “oat milk” people aren’t confused. Hell, cows aren’t magic. Even “real milk” is just a collection of sugars, proteins, etc. If there’s no difference between the two then what’s the distinction?
  - exegete 4y ago
    It’s not faux dairy in this case. It’s literally the same molecular makeup but from a fermentation process. It is actual dairy.
    - hunter-gatherer 4y ago
      I've found explaining this to people when I have had some brave robot to be a hard point to hit home for some reason. I'm not sure why.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dairy https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dairy 4 : milk from a cow or other domestic animal (such as a goat) also : food (such as ice cream, cheese, or yogurt) made primarily of or from milk -------------- Dairy specifically means and implies a cow (or similar domestic animal) as the origin of the food product. Where it comes from is just as important as what it is, if not more. Thus I reiterate: You can't have dairy with no cow.
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        Dictionaries are not prescriptive and are not an authoritative source for the meaning of a word. They will lag behind usage, sometimes for many years. Usage determines meaning, not Webster. Again, nobody is confused by terms like "coconut milk" or "almond milk".
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        They can call this milk all they want, but they can't call this dairy. The comments I replied to were discussing the likelihood of this stuff sharing the same floor area with dairy products.
        Karunamon 4y ago
        Oat milk and other such products have always been sold adjacent to the dairy milk, usually in the same coolers, in literally every grocery store I have ever visited.
      - CuriouslyC 4y ago
        That definition is only stated that way because completely synthetic milk is something most people haven't conceived of.
      - exegete 4y ago
        Ok well if we’re talking molecular structure it’s identical so I look forward to Webster adding that meaning in a few years as usage picks up in the English-speaking world.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- piyh 4y ago
  Half of what's on the shelf is already called frozen dairy dessert and not ice cream. Drop the word dairy and it's not that much different to the consumer.
Amezarak 4y ago
I don't support products like this. We know much more about biology than we used to. Incomparably more. But what we know is still very little. Replacing foods consumed for thousands of years with foods dreamed up in a lab is a fool's errand. We've already seen continual (and ONGOING) health disasters from industrialized foods. On top of that, there's likely already a lot wrong even with "scientifically"-enhanced modern agriculture that's not processed (animal feed, monocultured crops, pesticide use, topsoil depletion etc. etc.) We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. I suspect this latest push has a lot more to do with big capital players wanting to centralize food production and remove the dependencies on unpredictable inputs (animals) than any wide-eyed dream about saving the planet.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- afavour 4y ago
  > We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. This is that. Dairy cows can’t “scale” to meet a population like ours that keeps growing. They’re enormously inefficient. Agriculture has always been an exercise in optimising to feed growing populations, like when farmers grafted different variations of plant/fruit together to create hybrids. At the time you’d have easily described that as creating a Frankenstein monster. Today we’re just using more advanced tools.
  - Mistletoe 4y ago
    Our population isn’t really growing though. We are actually facing a population growth crisis in the USA and most other developed countries. Malthus seems to have been very wrong and human populations curb their reproduction and don’t just do exponential growth forever. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population...
    - 4y ago

by 0dayz 4y ago

nonethewiser 4y ago

I just don’t think it will be popular. It’s just going to be seen as “fake dairy” which will have limited appeal. Don’t need any conspiracy theories to explain it.

Dalewyn 4y ago
As far as I'm concerned, you can't have dairy with no cow. Dairy-free faux-dairy products should market themselves for what they are instead of lying.
- BreakfastB0b 4y ago
  Meaning is use. “Milk” is a fuzzy collection of properties and use cases. Which is why when you say “coconut milk” or “oat milk” people aren’t confused. Hell, cows aren’t magic. Even “real milk” is just a collection of sugars, proteins, etc. If there’s no difference between the two then what’s the distinction?
- exegete 4y ago
  It’s not faux dairy in this case. It’s literally the same molecular makeup but from a fermentation process. It is actual dairy.
  - hunter-gatherer 4y ago
    I've found explaining this to people when I have had some brave robot to be a hard point to hit home for some reason. I'm not sure why.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dairy https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dairy 4 : milk from a cow or other domestic animal (such as a goat) also : food (such as ice cream, cheese, or yogurt) made primarily of or from milk -------------- Dairy specifically means and implies a cow (or similar domestic animal) as the origin of the food product. Where it comes from is just as important as what it is, if not more. Thus I reiterate: You can't have dairy with no cow.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      Dictionaries are not prescriptive and are not an authoritative source for the meaning of a word. They will lag behind usage, sometimes for many years. Usage determines meaning, not Webster. Again, nobody is confused by terms like "coconut milk" or "almond milk".
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        They can call this milk all they want, but they can't call this dairy. The comments I replied to were discussing the likelihood of this stuff sharing the same floor area with dairy products.
        Karunamon 4y ago
        Oat milk and other such products have always been sold adjacent to the dairy milk, usually in the same coolers, in literally every grocery store I have ever visited.
    - CuriouslyC 4y ago
      That definition is only stated that way because completely synthetic milk is something most people haven't conceived of.
    - exegete 4y ago
      Ok well if we’re talking molecular structure it’s identical so I look forward to Webster adding that meaning in a few years as usage picks up in the English-speaking world.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
piyh 4y ago
Half of what's on the shelf is already called frozen dairy dessert and not ice cream. Drop the word dairy and it's not that much different to the consumer.

Amezarak 4y ago

I don't support products like this. We know much more about biology than we used to. Incomparably more. But what we know is still very little. Replacing foods consumed for thousands of years with foods dreamed up in a lab is a fool's errand. We've already seen continual (and ONGOING) health disasters from industrialized foods. On top of that, there's likely already a lot wrong even with "scientifically"-enhanced modern agriculture that's not processed (animal feed, monocultured crops, pesticide use, topsoil depletion etc. etc.) We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. I suspect this latest push has a lot more to do with big capital players wanting to centralize food production and remove the dependencies on unpredictable inputs (animals) than any wide-eyed dream about saving the planet.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
afavour 4y ago
> We need to stop what we're doing and actually work with the ecologies we have to produce enough food for everyone. This is that. Dairy cows can’t “scale” to meet a population like ours that keeps growing. They’re enormously inefficient. Agriculture has always been an exercise in optimising to feed growing populations, like when farmers grafted different variations of plant/fruit together to create hybrids. At the time you’d have easily described that as creating a Frankenstein monster. Today we’re just using more advanced tools.
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  Our population isn’t really growing though. We are actually facing a population growth crisis in the USA and most other developed countries. Malthus seems to have been very wrong and human populations curb their reproduction and don’t just do exponential growth forever. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population-grew-in-2021-slowest-rate-since-founding-of-the-nation.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/12/us-population...
  - 4y ago