4 ms·

I don't understand this criticism. The story was amazing.

by cyborgx7 4y ago

n1b0m 4y ago
What smurfs in space 2 bro? You must be joking cuz, the dialogue and story are atrocious.
- cyborgx7 4y ago
  Yes they are blue and in space. You sound like a very shallow person. It's a story about spirituality and nature and community and family that explicitly advocates for eco-terrorism against the American government. But none of that matters because they are blue, lol. People aren't blue. How silly.
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    > It's a story about spirituality and nature and community and family It’s a _clichéd_ story about all those aspects. “We are a family” or a variation thereof is the most repeated sentence in the movie. The evil guys are evil, 100%, no nuance. My humble opinion is that the movie is visually stunning but too predictable, but I’m not a fan of most movie where “things go boom” or “fighting to death” is a substantial component of the plot… so there’s that.
    - cyborgx7 4y ago
      Unpredictability is not a universal virtue in storytelling. You pretend you are above spectacle, but your enjoyment is so dependent on the spectacle of clever twists and subversion of expectations that you can no longer appreciate the value of a masterfully told straightforward story.
      - gattilorenz 4y ago
        I don’t see where I pretend to be above spectacle: I highlighted a correlation (most movie with those things are not of my liking), not a prerequisite. I’m actually a big fan of James Bond movies, classic ones (very “shallow” by modern standards and still good imo) and new ones too, and there’s plenty of fighting and explosions in those. I explained why to me it was a boring three hours in a very comfortable movie theatre armchair, so that you see why some people didn’t actually enjoy it as much as you did. On the masterpiece part, I’ll agree to disagree :)
  - n1b0m 4y ago
    The first Avatar had zero lasting cultural impact and this one will be the same. Name me one quotable line from either film. “I see you” lol You seem like a very shallow person if you think these films are any good.
    - cyborgx7 4y ago
      Imagine thinking "the movie wasn't just a collection of pre-packaged memes to share on twitter like all other major movies nowadays" is a good criticism.
      - kortilla 4y ago
        Imagine thinking cultural impact is Twitter memes.
        cyborgx7 4y ago
        What? You were the one that equated cultural impact with quotable lines. The fact that memability doesn't equal cultural impact is exactly the point I was making.
    - gattilorenz 4y ago
      S5E5 of “How To with John Wilson” (coincidentally, that I found a refreshing and even moving show that talks about human relationships - among other things - in a honest, down-to-heart way) disagrees with your assessment of cultural impact :)
      - n1b0m 4y ago
        Well first of all there’s only been 2 seasons of How To With John Wilson. I’ve seen the episode you’re referring to and the only thing it shows is some very sad, lonely and troubled people. I’d hardly call that a lasting cultural impact for a film that made almost 3 billion dollars and was then pretty much forgotten about.
  - n1b0m 4y ago
    Are you suffering from Post-Avatar depression syndrome? That would explain a lot!
    - cyborgx7 4y ago
      Is the idea that someone would genuinely appreciate the artistry of an earnest movie without clever self-aware memable moments really that unthinkable to you?
  - n1b0m 4y ago
    I presume the masterpiece Avatar triumphed at the Oscars and swept all before it.
munchbunny 4y ago
Do you mean that you don’t agree with the criticism, or that you don’t understand why someone would dislike the story? I feel like the former is the more understandable sentiment, since the latter is just a matter of personal taste. After a quick read of critic and user reviews through metacritic, the complaints seem pretty consistent regardless of how I personally feel about them. A ton of them say the plot was barebones and predictable. Even the glowing reviews from critics seem to mention that the plot only gets the job done.
- oefrha 4y ago
  Being cliched and predictable isn’t even the biggest problem. The original Avatar story was cliched and predictable yet I enjoyed it. This Avatar 2 story on the other hand doesn’t even make sense. The kids were captured and rescued three times in a single movie which is beyond ridiculous. Quaritch had his hostages but kept making empty threats and basically stood there watching his men taken down around him without doing anything. The water clan simply disappeared halfway into the final battle while clan leader’s daughter was still held hostage. What a mess.
  - senko 4y ago
    Having rewatched A1 a few times in the past few weeks (my kids rediscovered it), the original's story really doesn't make much sense if you think twice. Once I understood that in both cases the story is there just so Cameron can do his worldbuilding, I enjoyed both films very much.
    - oefrha 4y ago
      I have watched A1 maybe five to six times. There's the occasional leap of faith (like the literal leap of faith onto Toruk), but overall it's a reasonable story for a movie. (I try not to think about the white savior theme.) A2 is a different beast. The conflicts in A2 can be described as: - Quaritch captures kids. - Quaritch: Sully, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued. - Quaritch captures kids, again. - Quaritch: Sully, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued, again. One dies from battle wound. - Quaritch captures kids, again. - Quaritch: Sully, same deal despite everything, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued, again.

I don't understand this criticism. The story was amazing.

n1b0m 4y ago

What smurfs in space 2 bro? You must be joking cuz, the dialogue and story are atrocious.

cyborgx7 4y ago
Yes they are blue and in space. You sound like a very shallow person. It's a story about spirituality and nature and community and family that explicitly advocates for eco-terrorism against the American government. But none of that matters because they are blue, lol. People aren't blue. How silly.
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > It's a story about spirituality and nature and community and family It’s a _clichéd_ story about all those aspects. “We are a family” or a variation thereof is the most repeated sentence in the movie. The evil guys are evil, 100%, no nuance. My humble opinion is that the movie is visually stunning but too predictable, but I’m not a fan of most movie where “things go boom” or “fighting to death” is a substantial component of the plot… so there’s that.
  - cyborgx7 4y ago
    Unpredictability is not a universal virtue in storytelling. You pretend you are above spectacle, but your enjoyment is so dependent on the spectacle of clever twists and subversion of expectations that you can no longer appreciate the value of a masterfully told straightforward story.
    - gattilorenz 4y ago
      I don’t see where I pretend to be above spectacle: I highlighted a correlation (most movie with those things are not of my liking), not a prerequisite. I’m actually a big fan of James Bond movies, classic ones (very “shallow” by modern standards and still good imo) and new ones too, and there’s plenty of fighting and explosions in those. I explained why to me it was a boring three hours in a very comfortable movie theatre armchair, so that you see why some people didn’t actually enjoy it as much as you did. On the masterpiece part, I’ll agree to disagree :)
- n1b0m 4y ago
  The first Avatar had zero lasting cultural impact and this one will be the same. Name me one quotable line from either film. “I see you” lol You seem like a very shallow person if you think these films are any good.
  - cyborgx7 4y ago
    Imagine thinking "the movie wasn't just a collection of pre-packaged memes to share on twitter like all other major movies nowadays" is a good criticism.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      Imagine thinking cultural impact is Twitter memes.
      - cyborgx7 4y ago
        What? You were the one that equated cultural impact with quotable lines. The fact that memability doesn't equal cultural impact is exactly the point I was making.
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    S5E5 of “How To with John Wilson” (coincidentally, that I found a refreshing and even moving show that talks about human relationships - among other things - in a honest, down-to-heart way) disagrees with your assessment of cultural impact :)
    - n1b0m 4y ago
      Well first of all there’s only been 2 seasons of How To With John Wilson. I’ve seen the episode you’re referring to and the only thing it shows is some very sad, lonely and troubled people. I’d hardly call that a lasting cultural impact for a film that made almost 3 billion dollars and was then pretty much forgotten about.
- n1b0m 4y ago
  Are you suffering from Post-Avatar depression syndrome? That would explain a lot!
  - cyborgx7 4y ago
    Is the idea that someone would genuinely appreciate the artistry of an earnest movie without clever self-aware memable moments really that unthinkable to you?
- n1b0m 4y ago
  I presume the masterpiece Avatar triumphed at the Oscars and swept all before it.

munchbunny 4y ago

Do you mean that you don’t agree with the criticism, or that you don’t understand why someone would dislike the story? I feel like the former is the more understandable sentiment, since the latter is just a matter of personal taste. After a quick read of critic and user reviews through metacritic, the complaints seem pretty consistent regardless of how I personally feel about them. A ton of them say the plot was barebones and predictable. Even the glowing reviews from critics seem to mention that the plot only gets the job done.

oefrha 4y ago
Being cliched and predictable isn’t even the biggest problem. The original Avatar story was cliched and predictable yet I enjoyed it. This Avatar 2 story on the other hand doesn’t even make sense. The kids were captured and rescued three times in a single movie which is beyond ridiculous. Quaritch had his hostages but kept making empty threats and basically stood there watching his men taken down around him without doing anything. The water clan simply disappeared halfway into the final battle while clan leader’s daughter was still held hostage. What a mess.
- senko 4y ago
  Having rewatched A1 a few times in the past few weeks (my kids rediscovered it), the original's story really doesn't make much sense if you think twice. Once I understood that in both cases the story is there just so Cameron can do his worldbuilding, I enjoyed both films very much.
  - oefrha 4y ago
    I have watched A1 maybe five to six times. There's the occasional leap of faith (like the literal leap of faith onto Toruk), but overall it's a reasonable story for a movie. (I try not to think about the white savior theme.) A2 is a different beast. The conflicts in A2 can be described as: - Quaritch captures kids. - Quaritch: Sully, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued. - Quaritch captures kids, again. - Quaritch: Sully, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued, again. One dies from battle wound. - Quaritch captures kids, again. - Quaritch: Sully, same deal despite everything, come alone and surrender, or I kill your kids. - Sully doesn't come alone and doesn't surrender. Quaritch leaves kids alone. Quaritch's men die, kids rescued, again.