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Dead in the water. Like almost anything that touches partisan politics (or bike shedding, they’re scarily similar), we’re not stuck on whether we should stop th

Dead in the water. Like almost anything that touches partisan politics (or bike shedding, they’re scarily similar), we’re not stuck on whether we should stop the clocks, but whether it should be on DST or standard time. And both sides of the debate have found science that backs up their opinion, and cherry picked public comments, so the deadlock continues. Even though the doing nothing is far worse than picking the wrong shed color.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
I feel like this might be a uniquely American mindset: what we have is terrible. There are better ideas, but they are not perfect, therefore we will stick with the terrible status quo. See it in our healthcare system too.
- kunagi7 4y ago
  The clocks' problem is also replicated at the European side of the Atlantic. The current situation is terrible but opinions differ between locking the clock at standard time or daylight savings time. The EU tried to step in both 2019 and 2021 but the whole situation is quite stuck [0]. I prefer standard time since in winter using DST would mean dark skies until 9 am. But most people here seem to enjoy how in summer the sun doesn't set until 10 pm. So, whoever touches this topic will end up getting burned by either side and no one dares to change it or suggest it (for now). So the terrible status quo continues. [0] https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/28/when-will-the-eu-end-seasonal-clock-changes-only-time-will-tell https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/28/when-will-the-...
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Isn't your example of legitimate differences of opinion evidence that there is no clearly better option?
- jmull 4y ago
  > uniquely American mindset Doesn't the EU (and various other countries) still switch back and forth between standard and daylight savings time?
  - pixelesque 4y ago
    Yes. Many European countries, Canada, some Australian states/territories and New Zealand.
  - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
    The EU was supposed to end the system (countries would choose to keep either their summer or winter time zones) but it seems to have become blocked. Just the UK having left with no political desire to do anything that looks like an EU idea, combined with Irish opposition to different zones for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland may stymy it indefinitely. In the meantime, all EU countries observe a summer time that starts and ends on the same day across the EU.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  I think “making perfect the enemy of good” is not a uniquely American thing. Something that does seem unusually American (although I’m sure not uniquely) is: We all agree this thing is bad, and something should be done. But the primary way to make big changes is to have one side push it and make concessions to the other side, to get it done. Nobody is willing to make concessions for something we all agree is good, so the good thing will never get done. And also, we all agree it is bad, but our solutions are different, maybe even just in name, so we can’t let it be solved because that would give the other team a W.
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  Or 12 hour time when everyone else is on 24 Or Imperial measurement when everyone else is on metric Or middle endian date when...
starkd 4y ago
It all depends on what you are used to. Its just a standard. We have been switching between the two for decades now. Why did we adopt it to begin with?
- falcolas 4y ago
  It’s killing people. It provides no tangible benefits in a world with artificial lights. The offset we pick won’t really matter, but stopping the switch twice yearly will save lives.
  - starkd 4y ago
    That it is killing people is difficult to show. You would need a control group. There are so many factors, there will be criticism of any such study conducted.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      The control group is the rest of the year. Plus states/nations which don't do a DST switch. And there are plenty of studies already; I highly recommend perusing them. I won't insult your intelligence by offering a lmgtfy link.
  - yucky 4y ago
    Every study I've seen on this has been complete bunk. Which makes sense because how on earth could getting 1 hour less sleep on a random Saturday once a year lead to untold numbers of deaths? It's absurd. Change your clocks and if it bothers you drink an extra glass of wine at dinner and nod off a little sooner. People that get emotional about daylight savings are an odd bunch to say the least.
b112 4y ago
Dead in the water. Like almost anything that touches partisan politics While true, and while I think most will agree that there are issues with US partisan politics, here's the thing... Many people actually like DST. I personally do. I don't think this is quite as clear cut as some things. It depends upon where you live (the farther north, it seems (to me) there is more support). It also depends upon whether you want light in morning or night. So to restate, I think this issue is more "people just have opinions for legit reasons", rather than typical US partisan politics.
- falcolas 4y ago
  It’s been proven that shifting between the two time offsets kills people. Here’s one example article that discusses this. https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-dead... Stopping this is more important than picking the right offset to stop it at.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    You switch the clocks 2x per year, or you switch every schedule that operates on them 2x per year. People would still have to deal with the change either way.
    - dontlaugh 4y ago
      1h is not enough to make up for the difference in light, yet changing the clocks is disruptive. Much better to change schedules as often and by as much as suitable in each case.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        So instead of changing clocks 2x, every business and school have different schedules that change >2 times per year and you think that is the better option?
bannedbybros 4y ago
[dead]

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

I feel like this might be a uniquely American mindset: what we have is terrible. There are better ideas, but they are not perfect, therefore we will stick with the terrible status quo. See it in our healthcare system too.

kunagi7 4y ago
The clocks' problem is also replicated at the European side of the Atlantic. The current situation is terrible but opinions differ between locking the clock at standard time or daylight savings time. The EU tried to step in both 2019 and 2021 but the whole situation is quite stuck [0]. I prefer standard time since in winter using DST would mean dark skies until 9 am. But most people here seem to enjoy how in summer the sun doesn't set until 10 pm. So, whoever touches this topic will end up getting burned by either side and no one dares to change it or suggest it (for now). So the terrible status quo continues. [0] https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/28/when-will-the-eu-end-seasonal-clock-changes-only-time-will-tell https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/28/when-will-the-...
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Isn't your example of legitimate differences of opinion evidence that there is no clearly better option?
jmull 4y ago
> uniquely American mindset Doesn't the EU (and various other countries) still switch back and forth between standard and daylight savings time?
- pixelesque 4y ago
  Yes. Many European countries, Canada, some Australian states/territories and New Zealand.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  The EU was supposed to end the system (countries would choose to keep either their summer or winter time zones) but it seems to have become blocked. Just the UK having left with no political desire to do anything that looks like an EU idea, combined with Irish opposition to different zones for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland may stymy it indefinitely. In the meantime, all EU countries observe a summer time that starts and ends on the same day across the EU.
bee_rider 4y ago
I think “making perfect the enemy of good” is not a uniquely American thing. Something that does seem unusually American (although I’m sure not uniquely) is: We all agree this thing is bad, and something should be done. But the primary way to make big changes is to have one side push it and make concessions to the other side, to get it done. Nobody is willing to make concessions for something we all agree is good, so the good thing will never get done. And also, we all agree it is bad, but our solutions are different, maybe even just in name, so we can’t let it be solved because that would give the other team a W.
shrimp_emoji 4y ago
Or 12 hour time when everyone else is on 24 Or Imperial measurement when everyone else is on metric Or middle endian date when...

starkd 4y ago

It all depends on what you are used to. Its just a standard. We have been switching between the two for decades now. Why did we adopt it to begin with?

falcolas 4y ago
It’s killing people. It provides no tangible benefits in a world with artificial lights. The offset we pick won’t really matter, but stopping the switch twice yearly will save lives.
- starkd 4y ago
  That it is killing people is difficult to show. You would need a control group. There are so many factors, there will be criticism of any such study conducted.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    The control group is the rest of the year. Plus states/nations which don't do a DST switch. And there are plenty of studies already; I highly recommend perusing them. I won't insult your intelligence by offering a lmgtfy link.
- yucky 4y ago
  Every study I've seen on this has been complete bunk. Which makes sense because how on earth could getting 1 hour less sleep on a random Saturday once a year lead to untold numbers of deaths? It's absurd. Change your clocks and if it bothers you drink an extra glass of wine at dinner and nod off a little sooner. People that get emotional about daylight savings are an odd bunch to say the least.

b112 4y ago

Dead in the water. Like almost anything that touches partisan politics While true, and while I think most will agree that there are issues with US partisan politics, here's the thing... Many people actually like DST. I personally do. I don't think this is quite as clear cut as some things. It depends upon where you live (the farther north, it seems (to me) there is more support). It also depends upon whether you want light in morning or night. So to restate, I think this issue is more "people just have opinions for legit reasons", rather than typical US partisan politics.

falcolas 4y ago
It’s been proven that shifting between the two time offsets kills people. Here’s one example article that discusses this. https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-dead... Stopping this is more important than picking the right offset to stop it at.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  You switch the clocks 2x per year, or you switch every schedule that operates on them 2x per year. People would still have to deal with the change either way.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    1h is not enough to make up for the difference in light, yet changing the clocks is disruptive. Much better to change schedules as often and by as much as suitable in each case.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      So instead of changing clocks 2x, every business and school have different schedules that change >2 times per year and you think that is the better option?

bannedbybros 4y ago

[dead]