4 ms·
I really don't get why people keep coming up with all these elaborate plans to mix solar panels with other stuff that's in active use, instead of just putting f
by crooked-v 4y ago
I really don't get why people keep coming up with all these elaborate plans to mix solar panels with other stuff that's in active use, instead of just putting fields of them out in non-endangered desert elevated enough off the ground that they won't actively interfere with local animals.
- pornel 4y agoLong-distance energy transmission may be technically or politically harder, or just someone else's problem. If you're a farmer and already own the land, that's what you can do. A combination of the two land uses might be more profitable or less financially volatile than either one alone.
- thethethethe 4y agoWhy would we destroy pristine desert, which is rapidly disappearing, when we could cover land that has already been disturbed, like parking lots, building roofs, and farmland? Deserts are important ecosystems regardless of their immediate utility to industrial society
- downrightmike 4y agoIt plain makes more sense to generate the power as close to use as possible
- onethought 4y agoIt doesn’t make that much sense. We can transmit power pretty long distances these days. I don’t understand “don’t disturb the desert” - why? It’s not just useless to us… it’s useless to most living things.
- eru 4y ago> We can transmit power pretty long distances these days. Engineering feasibility is not the same as economic viability.
- CorrectHorseBat 4y agoOr political
- downrightmike 4y agoI don't know where OP got that from, but we don't actually need to use it, an a lot of things live there. It isn't all just bare sun bleached rock and sand. https://www.desertmuseum.org/desert/sonora.php https://www.desertmuseum.org/desert/sonora.php
- the8472 4y ago"things live there" can also be true about gamma-ray sterilized canned food[0]. That doesn't mean it's important to the continued functioning of the ecosphere. Also, some deserts are more lifeless than others. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans
- thethethethe 4y agoI don't see what point you are making that contradict my original comment. Yes deserts are less important to the health of the planet than biodiversity hotspots, but why would we destroy them when we have other alternatives?
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoHasn't area of desert increased a lot in recent years. We hear, for example, about increased desertification in Saharan Africa. If we reverse some of that desertification that would seem to help?
- thethethethe 4y agoFrom my other comment: desertification is the destruction of arable land, not the expansion of healthy desert ecosystems. Healthy desert ecosystems are disappearing, not expanding
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoThen they're orthogonal, and siting such projects on land that has become desert in the last century, say, will not harm these "healthy desert ecosystems" you speak of?
- eru 4y agoDeserts are rapidly disappearing?
- thethethethe 4y agoPristine deserts are. Invasive species, drought, and human development are all damaging desert ecosystems, which take much longer to recover than less arid biomes. Just because deserts appear barren doesn't mean there isn't an ecosystem there that isn't important.
- eru 4y agoMakes sense.
- kerpotgh 4y ago[dead]
- throwaway742 4y agoI agree that protecting desert ecosystems is important, but isn't desertification more of a problem than "rapidly disappearing" desert?
- thethethethe 4y agodesertification is the destruction of arable land, not the expansion of healthy desert ecosystems. Healthy desert ecosystems are disappearing, not expanding
- lost_tourist 4y agoThere will always be trade off no matter where we decide to put them. Either that or we return to living in villages and forget about modern civilization.
- thethethethe 4y agoNot really sure how you went from not destroying the desert for PV to living in villages and forgetting modern civilization, seems like a big jump. There are other alternatives which I mentioned that we can utilize before we need to make the trade off that you're talking about.
- the8472 4y ago> Deserts are important ecosystem Are you using "important" to say "have a function beyond being inert matter"? Then sure, but that information is already conveyed by saying "it's an ecosystem", adding that kind of "important" doesn't add information. If you mean "rank above many other things in a similar category" then I'm skeptical. The first one isn't helpful in this context because we need to put PV somewhere, we might as well look for a place of less relative importance.
- thethethethe 4y ago> The first one isn't helpful in this context because we need to put PV somewhere, we might as well look for a place of less relative importance. Yes, like the places I mentioned in my comment
- the8472 4y agoInstalling in deserts means you need minimal mechanical support for the panels. Parking lots require raised ones. Individual roofs are small compared to large solar farms. Most farming isn't compatible with panels (think tractors and harvesters). That it works for some fraction doesn't mean it's sufficient to get us the terawatts we need. And economics matter. If the installation is more expensive then it'll take longer for PV to replace existing plants.
- thethethethe 4y agoSo essentially you are saying we should destroy the environment because it appears to be cheaper in the short term? Sounds like a classic 20th century trapping that might not age so well when the externalities come back and demand repayment. I wouldn't underestimate the power of distributed arrays either. There are estimates that if every house had rooftop solar, it would generate 30-40% of total power demand [0], and that is just residential. Perhaps we cannot replace all power using brownfield PV but we shouldn't just disregard the desert or other pristine ecosystems without also utilizing other alternatives to minimize our impact. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.computerworld.com/article/3053882/solar-on-all-us-roofs-would-supply-39-of-power.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.computerworld.com/article/3...
- cultofmetatron 4y agothe plants help keep the solar panels cool which aids efficiency and longevity
- m463 4y agoI'm guessing that all these schemes timeshare one resource - people - who then diversify their enterprises by wearing two hats. Sort of how a convenience store has a storefront, then keeps leveraging it by adding things like moneygrams and lottery ticket sales and utility bill payments and so on... I also think there must be crops that benefit from shading. Either the crops grow well in indirect sunlight, or the area is too hot/sunny for the direct sunlight crops.
- andrewflnr 4y agoThey don't seem they elaborate to me, at least compared to any other engineering project that engages the real world. I'm just wondering what took them so long.