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Dishwashers are absolutely an appliance to splurge on. The difference between bottom-tier, adequate-tier and high-end is basically a few hundred bucks. Bottom-

Dishwashers are absolutely an appliance to splurge on. The difference between bottom-tier, adequate-tier and high-end is basically a few hundred bucks. Bottom-tier are loud, don't actually clean dishes well, are ugly, and fail early. Top-tier are near-silent, clean dishes without a pre-rinse, have all sorts of intelligent drawers & racks to fit all your needs, and look great. Some of them even have fancy features like popping the door open when done so the steam vents, etc. Miele or Bosch seem to be the way to go, by far. I am firmly a non-believer in luxury appliances and laugh at what people spend on fridges & ranges for vanity, but dishwashers are an absolute utilitarian efficient splurge.

jeffbee 4y ago
I wouldn't splurge on a luxury fridge either but I wish I understood why there aren't any good ones. I should be able to install the compressor and the rest of it outside. Coils on the bottom of a refrigerator is undoubtedly the stupidest architecture. And having to listen to the compressor isn't great either.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  That's why variable-speed scroll compressors are great.
- newaccount2023 4y ago
  there are no "good ones" because "luxury" appliances are basically the same as the cheap ones with a nicer finish or luxury brand name ask ANY appliance repair person...they would howl at the comments here they've told me that people who think Bosch or Miele are "good" are just remembering what they were like twenty years ago and today they are just as likely to fail as Kenmore ask ANY appliance repair person, don't listen to HN on topics like this
  - rascul 4y ago
    Depending on which specific appliance, the Kenmore is probably a Whirlpool.
fowkswe 4y ago
Here in the US, luxury appliances are what sell houses. Usually the investment pays handsomly when you go to sell.
- cesarb 4y ago
  > Here in the US, luxury appliances are what sell houses. Usually the investment pays handsomly when you go to sell. You don't take your appliances with you when you move?
  - philwelch 4y ago
    In Texas people usually take their washer, dryer, and fridge.
  - eatsyourtacos 4y ago
    Most of the time, no. Probably because as "standard" as sizes of appliances are- they also are not. So the last thing you want a potential buyer worrying about is (1) looking at an empty appliance slot or (2) knowing the appliances are going and worrying if they can find something to perfectly fit in the same spot. I mean also, because appliances usually stay.. it's kind of a problem for no one. Often times someone is selling a house to build a new one, they don't want to bring old appliances in a new build. Or if you are buying a pre-existing house, that will generally have the appliances etc.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      Also, appliances have been subject to the same supersizing effect as many other things in the US, especially refrigerators. A kitchen built or last remodeled prior to the mid-2000s or so is likely going to have trouble finding a fridge that will fit properly because they've gotten so much larger.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        Appliances wear out and need replaced and lots of property owners don’t regularly remodel, so there is a pretty big market for, and ready supply of, things like refrigerators that fit older houses. In a brick-and-mortar showroom, they won't be in the most prominent locations, but they also will often be fairly well priced for what they are because its a large and price-sensitive market segment.
buffington 4y ago
I have a cheap (in every sense) dishwasher with no fancy features that's nearly silent. Whether I put in relatively clean plates or filthy messy pots, it cleans them perfectly. Prior to that I owned a very expensive dishwasher and it was awful. Within the 90 day return window it broke twice. A week before that window closed I returned it and bought the one I have now for a third of the price. Someone I work with has a huge family. Something like eight or more kids. If I need recommendations on appliances I go to him because he's basically running dishwashers and laundry machines 12 hours a day. His advice to me for dishwashers: buy the cheapest one you can find. When it breaks, fixing it yourself usually costs under $100, and if it doesn't, get the same model and keep the functional parts of the old one (motors, pumps, control boards, inner rack parts, etc) as spares. It's been 5 years and I've yet to have any issues with the cheap no-frills one.
- soperj 4y ago
  Brand name & Model?
  - buffington 4y ago
    The cheap one is a Frigidaire. Not sure of the exact model since I'm not currently near it, but I'm pretty certain it's equivalent to their FDPC4221AS model, if not that exact model. The price was under $400. The expensive one that broke twice within 90 days was a KitchenAid that cost a bit less than $2000. I don't recall the model number. It had a stainless steel tub, three racks, interior LED lighting, fans to blow heated air to dry dishes, and all sorts of other fancy features, that, in hindsight, don't help clean dishes in the slightest. The first break: half way through a wash cycle I smelled burning plastic in the kitchen. It seemed like it was strongest near the dishwasher, so I opened it up. As I did, the sound of the water and pumps stopped, allowing me to hear the sound of what would ultimately be the source of the smell: the fan that was meant to blow heated air during the drying cycle was grinding away at full speed and rubbing against its housing causing it to melt. I could only guess as to why it malfunctioned that way - it shouldn't have even been running until all of the wash cycles had completed. It got replaced a few days later with the same model. The second break: I loaded it up, started the machine, and went to bed. When I woke up in the morning my entire kitchen was flooded with dirty dish water. This time, the plastic housing for the main pump had literally split in half. Not only did that allow water to just flow right onto my floor, but caused it to continue flooding my floor as it tried to fill the tub to the correct level. Since most of it was going on the floor, the float switch that signals when the tub is full never cut off the pump. Eventually I think the control board decided that was a problem and stopped the pump. In hindsight, there was really no justification for buying the fancy one in the first place. Aside from all "amazing" features, the design and parts used to accomplish the actual cleaning are almost identical in every way. I felt like a real idiot for falling for the marketing. Never again. To be fair, I've little experience with Miele or Bosch dishwashers. I lived in England for about a year over 15 years ago and had a Miele there. I had to be diligent about keeping it clean, otherwise I'd end up with dishes that were even more disgusting than when I put them in, as it would very effectively deposit the contents of an uncleaned filter onto every surface before baking it to an enamel-like finish. Given how much people seem to love their Miele dishwashers I suspect my experience with them wasn't typical.
joezydeco 4y ago
I love my Bosch 500 series but the best feature on it, by FAR, is the simplest. Bosch calls it AquaStop, it's a plastic tray underneath the entire mechanical assembly. If there is a leak in the system water will accumulate here first, saving your floors. A simple float switch puts the system into always-drain mode to try and purge the rest of the water as fast as it can. That little thing alone saved my wood floors from being ruined on an overnight inlet valve leak. And the valve was a $25 part from Amazon, a 30 minute DIY fix. That's some great engineering.
slowmovintarget 4y ago
We recently bought a high-end "duel fuel" range. It isn't for vanity, it's for utility and reliability. 6 gas burners including two special-function power-boilers (useful!), and two separate electric ovens. That means we can bake both the protein and the vegetable dish at the same time, while finishing other parts of the meal on the range (like rice or sauce) and cut down on the overall cooking time. Instead of my wife or I spending an hour to 90 minutes of serial cooking, we can parallelize the cook time and spend 30 to 45 minutes. Worth it, especially since we're eating out less than we ever have, one of the positive changes to come out of the pandemic.
unicornporn 4y ago
Came here to say the same thing. > Miele is a German brand of luxury appliances with a long-standing reputation for quality, sleek design, and precision-obsessed German engineering. Is it? Here in Sweden I'd say it's like any other kitchen appliance brand. Seems like they're well with the marketing overseas...

jeffbee 4y ago

I wouldn't splurge on a luxury fridge either but I wish I understood why there aren't any good ones. I should be able to install the compressor and the rest of it outside. Coils on the bottom of a refrigerator is undoubtedly the stupidest architecture. And having to listen to the compressor isn't great either.

frosted-flakes 4y ago
That's why variable-speed scroll compressors are great.
newaccount2023 4y ago
there are no "good ones" because "luxury" appliances are basically the same as the cheap ones with a nicer finish or luxury brand name ask ANY appliance repair person...they would howl at the comments here they've told me that people who think Bosch or Miele are "good" are just remembering what they were like twenty years ago and today they are just as likely to fail as Kenmore ask ANY appliance repair person, don't listen to HN on topics like this
- rascul 4y ago
  Depending on which specific appliance, the Kenmore is probably a Whirlpool.

fowkswe 4y ago

Here in the US, luxury appliances are what sell houses. Usually the investment pays handsomly when you go to sell.

cesarb 4y ago
> Here in the US, luxury appliances are what sell houses. Usually the investment pays handsomly when you go to sell. You don't take your appliances with you when you move?
- philwelch 4y ago
  In Texas people usually take their washer, dryer, and fridge.
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  Most of the time, no. Probably because as "standard" as sizes of appliances are- they also are not. So the last thing you want a potential buyer worrying about is (1) looking at an empty appliance slot or (2) knowing the appliances are going and worrying if they can find something to perfectly fit in the same spot. I mean also, because appliances usually stay.. it's kind of a problem for no one. Often times someone is selling a house to build a new one, they don't want to bring old appliances in a new build. Or if you are buying a pre-existing house, that will generally have the appliances etc.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Also, appliances have been subject to the same supersizing effect as many other things in the US, especially refrigerators. A kitchen built or last remodeled prior to the mid-2000s or so is likely going to have trouble finding a fridge that will fit properly because they've gotten so much larger.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Appliances wear out and need replaced and lots of property owners don’t regularly remodel, so there is a pretty big market for, and ready supply of, things like refrigerators that fit older houses. In a brick-and-mortar showroom, they won't be in the most prominent locations, but they also will often be fairly well priced for what they are because its a large and price-sensitive market segment.

buffington 4y ago

I have a cheap (in every sense) dishwasher with no fancy features that's nearly silent. Whether I put in relatively clean plates or filthy messy pots, it cleans them perfectly. Prior to that I owned a very expensive dishwasher and it was awful. Within the 90 day return window it broke twice. A week before that window closed I returned it and bought the one I have now for a third of the price. Someone I work with has a huge family. Something like eight or more kids. If I need recommendations on appliances I go to him because he's basically running dishwashers and laundry machines 12 hours a day. His advice to me for dishwashers: buy the cheapest one you can find. When it breaks, fixing it yourself usually costs under $100, and if it doesn't, get the same model and keep the functional parts of the old one (motors, pumps, control boards, inner rack parts, etc) as spares. It's been 5 years and I've yet to have any issues with the cheap no-frills one.

soperj 4y ago
Brand name & Model?
- buffington 4y ago
  The cheap one is a Frigidaire. Not sure of the exact model since I'm not currently near it, but I'm pretty certain it's equivalent to their FDPC4221AS model, if not that exact model. The price was under $400. The expensive one that broke twice within 90 days was a KitchenAid that cost a bit less than $2000. I don't recall the model number. It had a stainless steel tub, three racks, interior LED lighting, fans to blow heated air to dry dishes, and all sorts of other fancy features, that, in hindsight, don't help clean dishes in the slightest. The first break: half way through a wash cycle I smelled burning plastic in the kitchen. It seemed like it was strongest near the dishwasher, so I opened it up. As I did, the sound of the water and pumps stopped, allowing me to hear the sound of what would ultimately be the source of the smell: the fan that was meant to blow heated air during the drying cycle was grinding away at full speed and rubbing against its housing causing it to melt. I could only guess as to why it malfunctioned that way - it shouldn't have even been running until all of the wash cycles had completed. It got replaced a few days later with the same model. The second break: I loaded it up, started the machine, and went to bed. When I woke up in the morning my entire kitchen was flooded with dirty dish water. This time, the plastic housing for the main pump had literally split in half. Not only did that allow water to just flow right onto my floor, but caused it to continue flooding my floor as it tried to fill the tub to the correct level. Since most of it was going on the floor, the float switch that signals when the tub is full never cut off the pump. Eventually I think the control board decided that was a problem and stopped the pump. In hindsight, there was really no justification for buying the fancy one in the first place. Aside from all "amazing" features, the design and parts used to accomplish the actual cleaning are almost identical in every way. I felt like a real idiot for falling for the marketing. Never again. To be fair, I've little experience with Miele or Bosch dishwashers. I lived in England for about a year over 15 years ago and had a Miele there. I had to be diligent about keeping it clean, otherwise I'd end up with dishes that were even more disgusting than when I put them in, as it would very effectively deposit the contents of an uncleaned filter onto every surface before baking it to an enamel-like finish. Given how much people seem to love their Miele dishwashers I suspect my experience with them wasn't typical.

joezydeco 4y ago

I love my Bosch 500 series but the best feature on it, by FAR, is the simplest. Bosch calls it AquaStop, it's a plastic tray underneath the entire mechanical assembly. If there is a leak in the system water will accumulate here first, saving your floors. A simple float switch puts the system into always-drain mode to try and purge the rest of the water as fast as it can. That little thing alone saved my wood floors from being ruined on an overnight inlet valve leak. And the valve was a $25 part from Amazon, a 30 minute DIY fix. That's some great engineering.

slowmovintarget 4y ago

We recently bought a high-end "duel fuel" range. It isn't for vanity, it's for utility and reliability. 6 gas burners including two special-function power-boilers (useful!), and two separate electric ovens. That means we can bake both the protein and the vegetable dish at the same time, while finishing other parts of the meal on the range (like rice or sauce) and cut down on the overall cooking time. Instead of my wife or I spending an hour to 90 minutes of serial cooking, we can parallelize the cook time and spend 30 to 45 minutes. Worth it, especially since we're eating out less than we ever have, one of the positive changes to come out of the pandemic.

unicornporn 4y ago

Came here to say the same thing. > Miele is a German brand of luxury appliances with a long-standing reputation for quality, sleek design, and precision-obsessed German engineering. Is it? Here in Sweden I'd say it's like any other kitchen appliance brand. Seems like they're well with the marketing overseas...