4 ms·

Please don't learn to code

8 points by rsobers 15y ago

bjdixon 15y ago
Please don't learn to speak a second language. It can be hard and even with tools like Rosetta stone, Berlitz et al, many people just don't have the passion to learn these sort of things. Or... You could try and see if you like it. Awesome tools exist nowadays to enable us to try many different disciplines. Many of these are over-simplified and will only get you so far, but maybe you get a taste for a new hobby or a second career. I get what the article is trying to say, in places. However, I really believe in the try it and fail approach. You can discover talents and passions you never knew you had. That is unless you don't try to learn... On the other hand, they say ignorance is bliss.
- rsobers 15y ago
  I would love to see some statistics on the % of people who use Rosetta Stone, etc. and actually achieve their goal. It's hard. The general population loves the idea of speaking another language. That's why they buy the tapes. But in reality is so incredibly hard. But Rosetta Stone will happily sell you on the idea that "You too can start speaking French in 2 months because our methods make it super easy!" All they have to do is sell you on the dream to bank their cash. In reality, it doesn't work because it's hard. And people, in general, don't do hard things.
  - bjdixon 15y ago
    Agree, I'm sure that the stats would fully back you up on that. Even the people that achieve their first goals, how many still go on to become competent, or abandon the idea, because it's too hard? I agree with you that people don't do hard things, or at least don't commit and stick to them. But =) I still think people should try if it tickles their interest. Because some people succeed. My theory is try 10 things and fail at 9 of them. IMHO the failures were worthwhile in search of the 1 success. And you have to learn something from 9 failures, right? But, I recognise, this is just my opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would not be happy with a 9:1 ratio.
angdis 15y ago
The "learn to code" meme has been going around a lot lately, but I think there is a much more nuance to the intent behind learning to code than to literally train new programmers. I think many technical people don't realize that others simply don't see computers the way that they do. To the general public, computers and software exist as black boxes whose functions are not understood. This has an important negative side-effect of making regular people less critical about what goes on in their digital life. What his lack of critical ability translates to in real life is a weakened ability to recognize problems with things like SOPA/PIPA, or misguided ideas about online privacy. More generally, it makes people vulnerable to the designs of others who are working in their own self-interest and can do so because they have some amount of mastery of the digital domain. These initiatives to teach "the people" programming are all about getting them comfortable with digital technology, demystifying it, indirectly empowering them with the idea that computers and software are things that can be made to work in their own interests.
- rsobers 15y ago
  Great points. I totally agree that there's value in opening the black box. I hope that I got across the point that I actually would love to see more people touch programming, even if they aren't going to become professional programmers. The thing I'm objecting to is the false hope--that not everyone has, by the way--that we can dramatically increase the # of actual professional programmers by making things easier.
- SatvikBeri 15y ago
  I think programmers also tend to overestimate how little code you need to learn to contribute massive value. I've posted on this before, but learning how to automate excel scripts, use autohotkeys, or do some basic data analysis can easily be huge wins for the average office worker.
richardburton 15y ago
I completely disagree with this article. I have only just picked up programming in the last couple of years (at 23). I absolutely love it. Why's poignant PDF got me hooked. I am never going to be an expert programmer but I am going to run a company again and I will hire engineers. My hope is that they will enjoy working with me a lot more now that I actually understand what Gems and loops are.
laconian 15y ago
HyperCard was wonderful. It whet my appetite for programming when I was in third grade. The verbose syntax gave me the ability to open other people's stacks and learn the fundamentals of imperative programming by example. Now I have a CS degree under my belt, have had great jobs for the past six years (it's been that long already?), and feel no way compromised by having originally cut my teeth on a toy language. I think the author is wrong here. It should be something like this: please learn to code, but just keep in mind that there is always room to improve your craft. I've seen a lot of novice programmers who cling to the one language they know and guard their One True Language jealously. Just don't be that guy, keep moving and keep learning, and you'll be fine.
- rsobers 15y ago
  Novice programmers are still programmers. The title of the post is (intentionally) harsh, but the main point is that we have to reset expectations about what lowering the bar can truly accomplish. It's still programming. :-)

8 points by rsobers 15y ago

Please don't learn to speak a second language. It can be hard and even with tools like Rosetta stone, Berlitz et al, many people just don't have the passion to learn these sort of things. Or... You could try and see if you like it. Awesome tools exist nowadays to enable us to try many different disciplines. Many of these are over-simplified and will only get you so far, but maybe you get a taste for a new hobby or a second career. I get what the article is trying to say, in places. However, I really believe in the try it and fail approach. You can discover talents and passions you never knew you had. That is unless you don't try to learn... On the other hand, they say ignorance is bliss.

rsobers 15y ago
I would love to see some statistics on the % of people who use Rosetta Stone, etc. and actually achieve their goal. It's hard. The general population loves the idea of speaking another language. That's why they buy the tapes. But in reality is so incredibly hard. But Rosetta Stone will happily sell you on the idea that "You too can start speaking French in 2 months because our methods make it super easy!" All they have to do is sell you on the dream to bank their cash. In reality, it doesn't work because it's hard. And people, in general, don't do hard things.
- bjdixon 15y ago
  Agree, I'm sure that the stats would fully back you up on that. Even the people that achieve their first goals, how many still go on to become competent, or abandon the idea, because it's too hard? I agree with you that people don't do hard things, or at least don't commit and stick to them. But =) I still think people should try if it tickles their interest. Because some people succeed. My theory is try 10 things and fail at 9 of them. IMHO the failures were worthwhile in search of the 1 success. And you have to learn something from 9 failures, right? But, I recognise, this is just my opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would not be happy with a 9:1 ratio.

angdis 15y ago

The "learn to code" meme has been going around a lot lately, but I think there is a much more nuance to the intent behind learning to code than to literally train new programmers. I think many technical people don't realize that others simply don't see computers the way that they do. To the general public, computers and software exist as black boxes whose functions are not understood. This has an important negative side-effect of making regular people less critical about what goes on in their digital life. What his lack of critical ability translates to in real life is a weakened ability to recognize problems with things like SOPA/PIPA, or misguided ideas about online privacy. More generally, it makes people vulnerable to the designs of others who are working in their own self-interest and can do so because they have some amount of mastery of the digital domain. These initiatives to teach "the people" programming are all about getting them comfortable with digital technology, demystifying it, indirectly empowering them with the idea that computers and software are things that can be made to work in their own interests.

rsobers 15y ago
Great points. I totally agree that there's value in opening the black box. I hope that I got across the point that I actually would love to see more people touch programming, even if they aren't going to become professional programmers. The thing I'm objecting to is the false hope--that not everyone has, by the way--that we can dramatically increase the # of actual professional programmers by making things easier.
SatvikBeri 15y ago
I think programmers also tend to overestimate how little code you need to learn to contribute massive value. I've posted on this before, but learning how to automate excel scripts, use autohotkeys, or do some basic data analysis can easily be huge wins for the average office worker.

richardburton 15y ago

I completely disagree with this article. I have only just picked up programming in the last couple of years (at 23). I absolutely love it. Why's poignant PDF got me hooked. I am never going to be an expert programmer but I am going to run a company again and I will hire engineers. My hope is that they will enjoy working with me a lot more now that I actually understand what Gems and loops are.

laconian 15y ago

HyperCard was wonderful. It whet my appetite for programming when I was in third grade. The verbose syntax gave me the ability to open other people's stacks and learn the fundamentals of imperative programming by example. Now I have a CS degree under my belt, have had great jobs for the past six years (it's been that long already?), and feel no way compromised by having originally cut my teeth on a toy language. I think the author is wrong here. It should be something like this: please learn to code, but just keep in mind that there is always room to improve your craft. I've seen a lot of novice programmers who cling to the one language they know and guard their One True Language jealously. Just don't be that guy, keep moving and keep learning, and you'll be fine.

rsobers 15y ago
Novice programmers are still programmers. The title of the post is (intentionally) harsh, but the main point is that we have to reset expectations about what lowering the bar can truly accomplish. It's still programming. :-)