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>Every manufacturer that abuses this mechanism for anything other than actual security updates should be fined in a way that registers on their stock price and

by nix23 4y ago

>Every manufacturer that abuses this mechanism for anything other than actual security updates should be fined in a way that registers on their stock price and if they do it twice they should be fined out of existence. No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy. Give back the HP and buy a Brother....that would be called a self regulating Market.

uniqueuid 4y ago
Brother apparently has been going down this path as well. I've read that they intentionally degrade print quality with third-party inks and other things [1,2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mfc_firmware_update_nongenuine_toner_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mf... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
tommica 4y ago
I got an Epson ecotank and it really works nicely with third party inks
- sacul 4y ago
  I got one of those too, and I got it because I didn’t want to worry about this kind of garbage from HP. It’s also a bonus that I haven’t had to refill the ink in a LONG time. But oh my. The quality of the printing is terrible.
  - wccrawford 4y ago
    The quality of my ecotank's printing is terrible on normal mode, but when I put it into high quality mode it looks nice.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      That's the first stop, and the second is to make sure you run it at or near 20 degrees Celsius to get the ink to flow properly otherwise quality will suffer.
louwrentius 4y ago
This is a problem not solved by the market, for many reasons, but the most important one is that they all try to do this sooner or later. Shareholder value must increase and be found somewhere. Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check, maybe an unpopular opinion on HN but it hurts startups too because the market is not penetrable for competition.
- nix23 4y ago
  >Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check That's what i mean, a customer is allowed to return a device/car/whatever and get fully refunded if the initial function of a device changes with no technical advantage for the customer. Fines brings the Customer nothing (aka you don't get your money back) and is mostly small change for the company, no need to change anything...but paying full refunds for let's say a 4yo device, that could hurt allot.
  - xxs 4y ago
    The onus is on the customers to realize that the has been an issue, and they would be eligible for a refund (minus inflation). Then there are shipping costs, likely the customers bought it from a local retainer, that may or may not be in business... The endless emails and phone calls. Overall the customers are not in any position of power without a forced recall.
    - nix23 4y ago
      >The onus is on the customers to realize that the has been an issue, If the customer has no issues there are no issues right? >Then there are shipping costs, likely the customers bought it from a local retainer, that may or may not be in business... Again it's an HP and you send it directly to them, the MANUFACTURER has to cover all costs. Your retailer has not made the update so he should have nothing to do with it. >The endless emails and phone calls. One email: My printer (serial-number) worked for two years with that toner, since your update it's not working anymore (error blablabla), roll back that update or send me a shipping label. >Overall the customers are not in any position of power without a forced recall. Time to change that then right? Restore the functionality of my device or take it back. You are making a problem where no are.
plaguepilled 4y ago
>No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy. Wh-what? Yes fines! ABSOLUTELY yes fines! The punishment should be blunt, uniform, and intimidating! This is absolutely a situation for fines!
- nix23 4y ago
  >The punishment should be blunt, uniform, and intimidating! This is absolutely a situation for fines! To cover refund is a much bigger "fine" and the money flows directly back to those who suffered, that's not the case with fines, and fines are mostly small change for big-corps. Just extend the rights of Customers and everything could be fine.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Refunds can be stymied, much harder with fines (the party on the other side carries a much larger stick). But fine (pun intended), let's do both. Seriously, this sort of stuff should be discouraged in the strongest possible way.
    - nix23 4y ago
      >But fine (pun intended), let's do both. Absolutely fine with that, plus a massive fine if the refund is not paid back in a fair amount of time ;)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

by nix23 4y ago

uniqueuid 4y ago

Brother apparently has been going down this path as well. I've read that they intentionally degrade print quality with third-party inks and other things [1,2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mfc_firmware_update_nongenuine_toner_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mf... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131

tommica 4y ago

I got an Epson ecotank and it really works nicely with third party inks

sacul 4y ago
I got one of those too, and I got it because I didn’t want to worry about this kind of garbage from HP. It’s also a bonus that I haven’t had to refill the ink in a LONG time. But oh my. The quality of the printing is terrible.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  The quality of my ecotank's printing is terrible on normal mode, but when I put it into high quality mode it looks nice.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    That's the first stop, and the second is to make sure you run it at or near 20 degrees Celsius to get the ink to flow properly otherwise quality will suffer.

louwrentius 4y ago

This is a problem not solved by the market, for many reasons, but the most important one is that they all try to do this sooner or later. Shareholder value must increase and be found somewhere. Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check, maybe an unpopular opinion on HN but it hurts startups too because the market is not penetrable for competition.

nix23 4y ago
>Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check That's what i mean, a customer is allowed to return a device/car/whatever and get fully refunded if the initial function of a device changes with no technical advantage for the customer. Fines brings the Customer nothing (aka you don't get your money back) and is mostly small change for the company, no need to change anything...but paying full refunds for let's say a 4yo device, that could hurt allot.
- xxs 4y ago
  The onus is on the customers to realize that the has been an issue, and they would be eligible for a refund (minus inflation). Then there are shipping costs, likely the customers bought it from a local retainer, that may or may not be in business... The endless emails and phone calls. Overall the customers are not in any position of power without a forced recall.
  - nix23 4y ago
    >The onus is on the customers to realize that the has been an issue, If the customer has no issues there are no issues right? >Then there are shipping costs, likely the customers bought it from a local retainer, that may or may not be in business... Again it's an HP and you send it directly to them, the MANUFACTURER has to cover all costs. Your retailer has not made the update so he should have nothing to do with it. >The endless emails and phone calls. One email: My printer (serial-number) worked for two years with that toner, since your update it's not working anymore (error blablabla), roll back that update or send me a shipping label. >Overall the customers are not in any position of power without a forced recall. Time to change that then right? Restore the functionality of my device or take it back. You are making a problem where no are.

plaguepilled 4y ago

>No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy. Wh-what? Yes fines! ABSOLUTELY yes fines! The punishment should be blunt, uniform, and intimidating! This is absolutely a situation for fines!

nix23 4y ago
>The punishment should be blunt, uniform, and intimidating! This is absolutely a situation for fines! To cover refund is a much bigger "fine" and the money flows directly back to those who suffered, that's not the case with fines, and fines are mostly small change for big-corps. Just extend the rights of Customers and everything could be fine.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Refunds can be stymied, much harder with fines (the party on the other side carries a much larger stick). But fine (pun intended), let's do both. Seriously, this sort of stuff should be discouraged in the strongest possible way.
  - nix23 4y ago
    >But fine (pun intended), let's do both. Absolutely fine with that, plus a massive fine if the refund is not paid back in a fair amount of time ;)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]