5 ms·

Or they may decide to rewrite whole thing in Rust, and before that write a new framework to make sure that productivity is optimized, and write a project manage

Or they may decide to rewrite whole thing in Rust, and before that write a new framework to make sure that productivity is optimized, and write a project management tool for it first because current one sucks.

winrid 4y ago
This makes developers sound like dumb code monkeys. Devs, especially good ones, can make good products without a PM. A PM can be a nice tool to interface with the rest of the company, Sure.
- clintonb 4y ago
  Product managers usually help the team by interfacing with the customer, not just the internal company.
  - arlcode 4y ago
    It's awesome if it's working. I had a PM once who listened to Dev feedback and was great at communicating with customers/users. When done correctly priotizing features which are technically boring or seemingly unnecessary is absolutely the right way forward. That person is also in the right position to communicate Dev effort and difficulties back.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  “I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people.”
Tanjreeve 4y ago
Yes all software engineers are actually complete idiot's who if left unsupervised will walk around with their trousers on their heads bumping into walls.
- vanviegen 4y ago
  That is indeed the feeling I get when looking at the tremendous overengineering displayed by the software stacks teams sometimes end up with. Why solve customer problems when you could instead play with new toys? To be clear: I'm a software developer, and I feel this natural tendency too. I've gotten pretty good at suppressing it though.
  - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    Right so PMs don’t seem to solve this problem in practice
  - Tanjreeve 4y ago
    And you're sure this isn't dunning Kruger and this "over engineering" isn't just edge case handling?
- f6v 4y ago
  There’re those who want to establish the dictatorship of software developers because they think anyone not writing code is stupid and useless.
  - Tanjreeve 4y ago
    Some people are arrogant or not good at their jobs isn't exactly a huge revelation. There are a lot of people who are not software developers who are also stupid and useless. But they are not the ones who get blamed if a software project fails.
- stackedinserter 4y ago
  Not all, but 1-2 people in a team of 10 can steer development into rabbit hole of rewriting in rust/re-frameworking/re-architecturing. There should be someone who connects engineers to reality that's driven by business needs and limited funding, and each line of code has a price tag.
  - Tanjreeve 4y ago

winrid 4y ago

This makes developers sound like dumb code monkeys. Devs, especially good ones, can make good products without a PM. A PM can be a nice tool to interface with the rest of the company, Sure.

clintonb 4y ago
Product managers usually help the team by interfacing with the customer, not just the internal company.
- arlcode 4y ago
  It's awesome if it's working. I had a PM once who listened to Dev feedback and was great at communicating with customers/users. When done correctly priotizing features which are technically boring or seemingly unnecessary is absolutely the right way forward. That person is also in the right position to communicate Dev effort and difficulties back.
zeroonetwothree 4y ago
“I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people.”

Tanjreeve 4y ago

Yes all software engineers are actually complete idiot's who if left unsupervised will walk around with their trousers on their heads bumping into walls.

vanviegen 4y ago
That is indeed the feeling I get when looking at the tremendous overengineering displayed by the software stacks teams sometimes end up with. Why solve customer problems when you could instead play with new toys? To be clear: I'm a software developer, and I feel this natural tendency too. I've gotten pretty good at suppressing it though.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  Right so PMs don’t seem to solve this problem in practice
- Tanjreeve 4y ago
  And you're sure this isn't dunning Kruger and this "over engineering" isn't just edge case handling?
f6v 4y ago
There’re those who want to establish the dictatorship of software developers because they think anyone not writing code is stupid and useless.
- Tanjreeve 4y ago
  Some people are arrogant or not good at their jobs isn't exactly a huge revelation. There are a lot of people who are not software developers who are also stupid and useless. But they are not the ones who get blamed if a software project fails.
stackedinserter 4y ago
Not all, but 1-2 people in a team of 10 can steer development into rabbit hole of rewriting in rust/re-frameworking/re-architecturing. There should be someone who connects engineers to reality that's driven by business needs and limited funding, and each line of code has a price tag.
- Tanjreeve 4y ago