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Some people don't like nuclear power plants and somehow that's more important to them than national/energy security. UK (and France) already have the bomb; goi

Some people don't like nuclear power plants and somehow that's more important to them than national/energy security. UK (and France) already have the bomb; going renewable here rather than nuclear has nothing to do with proliferation. I don't see how (for the UK) it's anything except people's feelings are hurt by nuclear power plants. For the rest of Europe maybe it's about proliferation. And maybe economies of scale make tagging along cheaper than local nuclear for Britain.

Gwypaas 4y ago
Pure cost. Paying Hinkley Point C $150/MWh for 35 years is just bonkers waste of money. Flamanville 3 is a similarly amazing project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan...
- nottathrowaway3 4y ago
  Average electricity prices (edit/correction: in dense urban areas) in the U.S. are ~$250/mwh https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
  - Gwypaas 4y ago
    Which includes the transmission grid. Nuclear costs that, and then you have to build a grid.
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Your chart shows residential prices for the total us average ~$140/MWh, not $250/MWh. Plus, this is the total cost including transmission and distribution, which is roughly half the retail cost. Generation costs average less than $70/MWh, including expensive peaking power in the average. You want to compare the £150/MWh to generation costs of the alternatives in the UK, which are a fraction of £150.
    - nottathrowaway3 4y ago
      > generation costs of the alternatives in the UK I'm all for renewable or nuclear energy, whatever's cheaper/strategic. As long as it's not burning fossil fuels.
      - epistasis 4y ago
        On- and off-shore wind plus storage is going to be a lot cheaper than nuclear, as well this massive transmission line. Hell, at £150/MWh, I bet that solar+storage is cheaper in the dreary parts of the UK. Maybe Rolls Royce will figure out cheap SMR nuclear, but that won't deploy until late 2030s, I would guess, if it does work. We are fortunate to have good carbon free alternatives to nuclear, after decades of hard work by renewable technologists. It's real tech.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- londons_explore 4y ago
  Yet the spot price of power has been over £150/MWh for most of the last year... That deal is starting to look pretty good for the government...
  - Gwypaas 4y ago
    A haphazard continent-wide transition from Russian gas, and all we get is nuclear prices for power? So to get it straight, you are proposing that we always should have an energy crisis in Europe?
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      The futures market, even 5 years out, doesn't show a return to old prices. It looks like the market doesn't expect russian gas to ever return.
      - Gwypaas 4y ago
        Like an addon of $10-20/MWh. That does not pay for a nuclear plant.
  - p1necone 4y ago
    Generation cost !== retail all the way to the consumer cost. The latter is always going to be higher, just like all other goods and services.
- pyrale 4y ago
  I believed the strike was under £100 and cost overruns were to be paid by EDF? Was there a contract change?
  - Gwypaas 4y ago
    £92.50/MWh in 2012 prices is £122/MWh today. Convert to USD.
crote 4y ago
The UK is currently developing 12GW of nuclear power plants, and it is not exactly going great. Hinkley Point C was originally quoted for £16 billion in 2012, which rose to £20.3 billion when construction started in 2017. It has been under construction for 6 years, they are 3 years behind schedule, and the cost is up to £32.7 billion. Sizewell C is allowed to start construction and was scheduled to do so in 2021, but they haven't been able to finance it. Moorside was cancelled because Toshiba pulled out of the project, and Hitachi pulled out of the Wylfa B and Moorside plants leading to them getting shelved. Not to mention that they are very controversial from an economic perspective. Hinkley Point C has a strike price of £92.5/MWh, while recent offshore wind projects have a strike price of £39.65/MWh. In practice this means the consumer will end up paying to turn off wind turbine in order to run nuclear. It just doesn't make economic sense.

Gwypaas 4y ago

Pure cost. Paying Hinkley Point C $150/MWh for 35 years is just bonkers waste of money. Flamanville 3 is a similarly amazing project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan...

nottathrowaway3 4y ago
Average electricity prices (edit/correction: in dense urban areas) in the U.S. are ~$250/mwh https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  Which includes the transmission grid. Nuclear costs that, and then you have to build a grid.
- epistasis 4y ago
  Your chart shows residential prices for the total us average ~$140/MWh, not $250/MWh. Plus, this is the total cost including transmission and distribution, which is roughly half the retail cost. Generation costs average less than $70/MWh, including expensive peaking power in the average. You want to compare the £150/MWh to generation costs of the alternatives in the UK, which are a fraction of £150.
  - nottathrowaway3 4y ago
    > generation costs of the alternatives in the UK I'm all for renewable or nuclear energy, whatever's cheaper/strategic. As long as it's not burning fossil fuels.
    - epistasis 4y ago
      On- and off-shore wind plus storage is going to be a lot cheaper than nuclear, as well this massive transmission line. Hell, at £150/MWh, I bet that solar+storage is cheaper in the dreary parts of the UK. Maybe Rolls Royce will figure out cheap SMR nuclear, but that won't deploy until late 2030s, I would guess, if it does work. We are fortunate to have good carbon free alternatives to nuclear, after decades of hard work by renewable technologists. It's real tech.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
londons_explore 4y ago
Yet the spot price of power has been over £150/MWh for most of the last year... That deal is starting to look pretty good for the government...
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  A haphazard continent-wide transition from Russian gas, and all we get is nuclear prices for power? So to get it straight, you are proposing that we always should have an energy crisis in Europe?
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    The futures market, even 5 years out, doesn't show a return to old prices. It looks like the market doesn't expect russian gas to ever return.
    - Gwypaas 4y ago
      Like an addon of $10-20/MWh. That does not pay for a nuclear plant.
- p1necone 4y ago
  Generation cost !== retail all the way to the consumer cost. The latter is always going to be higher, just like all other goods and services.
pyrale 4y ago
I believed the strike was under £100 and cost overruns were to be paid by EDF? Was there a contract change?
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  £92.50/MWh in 2012 prices is £122/MWh today. Convert to USD.

crote 4y ago

The UK is currently developing 12GW of nuclear power plants, and it is not exactly going great. Hinkley Point C was originally quoted for £16 billion in 2012, which rose to £20.3 billion when construction started in 2017. It has been under construction for 6 years, they are 3 years behind schedule, and the cost is up to £32.7 billion. Sizewell C is allowed to start construction and was scheduled to do so in 2021, but they haven't been able to finance it. Moorside was cancelled because Toshiba pulled out of the project, and Hitachi pulled out of the Wylfa B and Moorside plants leading to them getting shelved. Not to mention that they are very controversial from an economic perspective. Hinkley Point C has a strike price of £92.5/MWh, while recent offshore wind projects have a strike price of £39.65/MWh. In practice this means the consumer will end up paying to turn off wind turbine in order to run nuclear. It just doesn't make economic sense.