4 ms·

> If they could just be self-sufficient with a load of nuclear power plants Given that most countries don't have a source of uranium, I don't see how this is a

> If they could just be self-sufficient with a load of nuclear power plants Given that most countries don't have a source of uranium, I don't see how this is any better from a geopolitical security perspective.

kneebonian 4y ago
From my understanding you don't need a lot of uranium to run reactors for quite a while. That's one of the reason it is such a promising lead.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  An unfortunate part of human cognition is we're pretty bad at assessing small but widespread and constant risks/damages so the impact of pollution pales in comparison to the mental impact of singular events like the various nuclear disasters or near misses we've had between TMI, Chernobyl, Fukushima, et al. So they receive outsized push back compared to their actual reduced risk. (Also to be fair when a nuclear disaster does happen it renders an area unusable for a lot longer so the events tend to stick in people's memories) Building them is also unfortunately a many decades long endeavor so we need shorter timeline solutions to bend the curve of climate change. I think a lot of environmentalists have also been burned by long term projects that sit in planning and approval hell for years to decades then get cancelled or funding redirected when a new administration decides to try to make their mark on a project. A similar thing has hampered NASAs Moon and Mars programs where options are pursued and cancelled constantly. SLS is not the first plan for a Moon return NASA has worked on for years it's just the first one that managed to spread the pork around enough to avoid cancellation.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    > Building them is also unfortunately a many decades long endeavor That’s only true now. We used to build them in a few years.
    - rtkwe 4y ago
      That's partially a bureaucratic and political issue but also designs are also much more complex than the were during the glory years.
doodlesdev 4y ago
You can stock it though, in case foreign countries cut supply short you're not suddendly out of power but instead have time to plan a negotiation or attempt to source it from elsewhere.
- CTDOCodebases 4y ago
  Not so great when the foreign powers decide to bomb the nuclear reactors though.
  - demindiro 4y ago
    Or cut the cable.
  - diordiderot 4y ago
    Anyone capable of bombing a nuclear reactor in the UK would just nuke the UK so a reactor doesn't really play into it
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    I don't think that's a realistic problem.
cobaltoxide 4y ago
At least uranium can be stockpiled.
AngusH 4y ago
Uranium is a mineral and can be purchased from many places and stored then used as needed. 15 countries mining it currently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_p... There are also more countries with estimated reserves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_reserves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_r... While an undersea cable requires continuous operation and the agreement from a single country where it starts. If they suddenly decide for whatever reason to turn it off (say they're short of electricity) then the supply is immediately stopped.
- caf 4y ago
  Equally relevant only 13 countries are fabricating nuclear fuel rods. https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/conversion-enrichment-and-fabrication/fuel-fabrication.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
  - preisschild 4y ago
    You could use a CANDU PHWR (Pressurized Heavy Water Reactor) if supply chain safety is that important to you, but don't want an enrichment industry. CANDU reactors can use natural Uranium.
- belorn 4y ago
  Sweden do have uranium in the ground and could be mining it, but they created a law forbidding it.
quickthrower2 4y ago
The UK presumably does, as it maintains nuclear weapons.
- WJW 4y ago
  The UK does not mine its own uranium though. There used to be a uranium mine in Cornwall but it stopped mining in 1930. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_by_country)
pyrale 4y ago
If the issue is just geopolitical independence, it's easy to stockpile uranium reserves. I believe France has several years worth of uranium stockpiled, so even if relations soured with all of our providers, which are pretty diverse, we would have a few years to react.

kneebonian 4y ago

From my understanding you don't need a lot of uranium to run reactors for quite a while. That's one of the reason it is such a promising lead.

rtkwe 4y ago
An unfortunate part of human cognition is we're pretty bad at assessing small but widespread and constant risks/damages so the impact of pollution pales in comparison to the mental impact of singular events like the various nuclear disasters or near misses we've had between TMI, Chernobyl, Fukushima, et al. So they receive outsized push back compared to their actual reduced risk. (Also to be fair when a nuclear disaster does happen it renders an area unusable for a lot longer so the events tend to stick in people's memories) Building them is also unfortunately a many decades long endeavor so we need shorter timeline solutions to bend the curve of climate change. I think a lot of environmentalists have also been burned by long term projects that sit in planning and approval hell for years to decades then get cancelled or funding redirected when a new administration decides to try to make their mark on a project. A similar thing has hampered NASAs Moon and Mars programs where options are pursued and cancelled constantly. SLS is not the first plan for a Moon return NASA has worked on for years it's just the first one that managed to spread the pork around enough to avoid cancellation.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > Building them is also unfortunately a many decades long endeavor That’s only true now. We used to build them in a few years.
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    That's partially a bureaucratic and political issue but also designs are also much more complex than the were during the glory years.

doodlesdev 4y ago

You can stock it though, in case foreign countries cut supply short you're not suddendly out of power but instead have time to plan a negotiation or attempt to source it from elsewhere.

CTDOCodebases 4y ago
Not so great when the foreign powers decide to bomb the nuclear reactors though.
- demindiro 4y ago
  Or cut the cable.
- diordiderot 4y ago
  Anyone capable of bombing a nuclear reactor in the UK would just nuke the UK so a reactor doesn't really play into it
- throwaway742 4y ago
  I don't think that's a realistic problem.

cobaltoxide 4y ago

At least uranium can be stockpiled.

AngusH 4y ago

Uranium is a mineral and can be purchased from many places and stored then used as needed. 15 countries mining it currently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_p... There are also more countries with estimated reserves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_reserves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_r... While an undersea cable requires continuous operation and the agreement from a single country where it starts. If they suddenly decide for whatever reason to turn it off (say they're short of electricity) then the supply is immediately stopped.

caf 4y ago
Equally relevant only 13 countries are fabricating nuclear fuel rods. https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/conversion-enrichment-and-fabrication/fuel-fabrication.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
- preisschild 4y ago
  You could use a CANDU PHWR (Pressurized Heavy Water Reactor) if supply chain safety is that important to you, but don't want an enrichment industry. CANDU reactors can use natural Uranium.
belorn 4y ago
Sweden do have uranium in the ground and could be mining it, but they created a law forbidding it.

quickthrower2 4y ago

The UK presumably does, as it maintains nuclear weapons.

WJW 4y ago
The UK does not mine its own uranium though. There used to be a uranium mine in Cornwall but it stopped mining in 1930. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_by_country)

pyrale 4y ago

If the issue is just geopolitical independence, it's easy to stockpile uranium reserves. I believe France has several years worth of uranium stockpiled, so even if relations soured with all of our providers, which are pretty diverse, we would have a few years to react.