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friend of mine owns a small roofing company that has almost 100% pivoted to solar installs and only does a new roof if the old roof needs to be replaced before

friend of mine owns a small roofing company that has almost 100% pivoted to solar installs and only does a new roof if the old roof needs to be replaced before panels can be put on. He has jobs booked out 8 months now. Its funny because he tells me his parents were so upset he started a roofing company and didn't go to college and now he makes more per year then most software engineers even at large tech companies. He also said he's having issues hiring dependable people even though he says he's offering a really good salary+benefits.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
> He also said he's having issues hiring dependable people even though he says he's offering a really good salary+benefits. It is evidently not good enough. Can you share how much he is offering for back breaking outdoor labor that has a high likelihood of causing musculoskeletal healthcare problems by one’s 50s, and cannot screw around on HN during the day?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  It was 'dependable', not 'in general'. That makes a big difference. Subcontractors or people working out of sight on installation work are difficult hires because you need to inspect the work after it has been done and that can be very tricky once it's all sewn up. It also requires people to be there on time and to not cause damage. Hiring for such roles is very difficult, typically you try a large number of people and you end up finding some fraction of that (not a very large fraction) that works out over the longer time. As for the effects of physical labor on the body: that is true for many industries and occupations. It certainly doesn't give solar a pass but this is not a problem that is exclusive to solar installations (though the risk of injury is high this is in part because the people that try to do the work aim to get it done as quickly as possible and safety be damned). Have a look at the building trades for small time contractors, the situation is quite comparable (especially the roofing part). But don't underestimate the wear and tear of any one of a large number of other 'blue collar' jobs on the body.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > That makes a big difference. I do not see the difference. He wants a worker of certain quality, and apparently is not offering or able to offer sufficient pay to attract said worker from other options they have. As for the second paragraph, I never meant to imply roofing or solar was special. As the proportion of younger age population declines, prices for work with lower quality of life will need to rise to compete with work that offers a higher quality of life.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Pay does not guarantee quality. You may simply not be able to find the people (or at least enough of them) that you need, no matter what you are willing to pay. Not everything is a 'free market' problem. In solar installations the first filter is 'is comfortable working at heights', the second is 'can deliver quality work', the third is 'is able to represent the company well', the fourth is 'will take good care not to damage the clients property' and there are probably others. Within a given region there may simply not be enough people left over in the intersection of all those sets that you are able to supply the companies with sufficient people. There are quite a few industries with similar shortages. Usually over time these even out as industries mature but during a growth spurt (which is exactly what has been happening for the last decade or so) the market may not be able to solve the shortfall by offering more cash, for that to work enough people actually need to exist in that bracket.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        "Comfortable working at heights" feels like the only part that's somewhat unique, but quality work, friendly and won't trash the place applies to lots of people in lots of industries and trades, and surely you could attract some of them if you paid more. When someone claims they can't get anyone to work for them "no matter what they are willing to pay", it often turns out they weren't willing to pay all that much. Which solar installation company offers FAANG level total compensation?
        4y ago
- crispinb 4y ago
  > back breaking outdoor labor that has a high likelihood of causing musculoskeletal healthcare problems by one’s 50s, Are you sure about this, I mean non-anecdotally? Much might depend on the type/repetitiveness of the labour, etc,etc, but in general I suspect most HN-fiddlers are (mutatis mutandis)in poorer physical shape than labourers. There's little more dangerous to a mammalian frame, designed for a life of outdoor physical activity, than hours of inactivity. The sofa and car are probably the two most physically dangerous items we've come up with. I started to notice most of my peers having become functionally disabled by car and sofa abuse by about their late 20s.
- hijinks 4y ago
  i'm not 100% sure but I believe from what I seem to remember around $37 an hour. Also offers overtime.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- themitigating 4y ago
  I think much of that has to do with how you work and maintaining good health. Plus modern tech has helped For example they small lifting devices that attach to ladders to bring roofing material up, think like a flat elevator that goes up and down. That takes alot of heavy lifting and climbing. Nail guns and other power tools also reduce exertion in general. I'm not saying it's easy but it's better
nonethewiser 4y ago
Where?
- hijinks 4y ago
  San Diego
acomjean 4y ago
We had our solar inverter fail (again, it under warranty but a pain). Our original installer is out of business, and a couple companies we talked to said it’s probably a year our before they could send someone. We have someone coming this week (fingers crossed)
- jacquesm 4y ago
  The weak points in cheap inverters are the relays that switch the inverter from offline to online mode. It may well be a matter of just replacing that one relay.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

> He also said he's having issues hiring dependable people even though he says he's offering a really good salary+benefits. It is evidently not good enough. Can you share how much he is offering for back breaking outdoor labor that has a high likelihood of causing musculoskeletal healthcare problems by one’s 50s, and cannot screw around on HN during the day?

jacquesm 4y ago
It was 'dependable', not 'in general'. That makes a big difference. Subcontractors or people working out of sight on installation work are difficult hires because you need to inspect the work after it has been done and that can be very tricky once it's all sewn up. It also requires people to be there on time and to not cause damage. Hiring for such roles is very difficult, typically you try a large number of people and you end up finding some fraction of that (not a very large fraction) that works out over the longer time. As for the effects of physical labor on the body: that is true for many industries and occupations. It certainly doesn't give solar a pass but this is not a problem that is exclusive to solar installations (though the risk of injury is high this is in part because the people that try to do the work aim to get it done as quickly as possible and safety be damned). Have a look at the building trades for small time contractors, the situation is quite comparable (especially the roofing part). But don't underestimate the wear and tear of any one of a large number of other 'blue collar' jobs on the body.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > That makes a big difference. I do not see the difference. He wants a worker of certain quality, and apparently is not offering or able to offer sufficient pay to attract said worker from other options they have. As for the second paragraph, I never meant to imply roofing or solar was special. As the proportion of younger age population declines, prices for work with lower quality of life will need to rise to compete with work that offers a higher quality of life.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Pay does not guarantee quality. You may simply not be able to find the people (or at least enough of them) that you need, no matter what you are willing to pay. Not everything is a 'free market' problem. In solar installations the first filter is 'is comfortable working at heights', the second is 'can deliver quality work', the third is 'is able to represent the company well', the fourth is 'will take good care not to damage the clients property' and there are probably others. Within a given region there may simply not be enough people left over in the intersection of all those sets that you are able to supply the companies with sufficient people. There are quite a few industries with similar shortages. Usually over time these even out as industries mature but during a growth spurt (which is exactly what has been happening for the last decade or so) the market may not be able to solve the shortfall by offering more cash, for that to work enough people actually need to exist in that bracket.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      "Comfortable working at heights" feels like the only part that's somewhat unique, but quality work, friendly and won't trash the place applies to lots of people in lots of industries and trades, and surely you could attract some of them if you paid more. When someone claims they can't get anyone to work for them "no matter what they are willing to pay", it often turns out they weren't willing to pay all that much. Which solar installation company offers FAANG level total compensation?
      - 4y ago
crispinb 4y ago
> back breaking outdoor labor that has a high likelihood of causing musculoskeletal healthcare problems by one’s 50s, Are you sure about this, I mean non-anecdotally? Much might depend on the type/repetitiveness of the labour, etc,etc, but in general I suspect most HN-fiddlers are (mutatis mutandis)in poorer physical shape than labourers. There's little more dangerous to a mammalian frame, designed for a life of outdoor physical activity, than hours of inactivity. The sofa and car are probably the two most physically dangerous items we've come up with. I started to notice most of my peers having become functionally disabled by car and sofa abuse by about their late 20s.
hijinks 4y ago
i'm not 100% sure but I believe from what I seem to remember around $37 an hour. Also offers overtime.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
themitigating 4y ago
I think much of that has to do with how you work and maintaining good health. Plus modern tech has helped For example they small lifting devices that attach to ladders to bring roofing material up, think like a flat elevator that goes up and down. That takes alot of heavy lifting and climbing. Nail guns and other power tools also reduce exertion in general. I'm not saying it's easy but it's better

nonethewiser 4y ago

Where?

hijinks 4y ago
San Diego

acomjean 4y ago

We had our solar inverter fail (again, it under warranty but a pain). Our original installer is out of business, and a couple companies we talked to said it’s probably a year our before they could send someone. We have someone coming this week (fingers crossed)

jacquesm 4y ago
The weak points in cheap inverters are the relays that switch the inverter from offline to online mode. It may well be a matter of just replacing that one relay.