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> No one talks about the 20+ murders a weekend in South-side Chicago. No one. How do you expect children to get an education and lift themselves out of poverty

by cmh89 4y ago

> No one talks about the 20+ murders a weekend in South-side Chicago. No one. How do you expect children to get an education and lift themselves out of poverty when they are terrified of being gunned down every single day? Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. >The worst parts of the US need a well-trained, well-monitored police state that will bring safety to those neighborhoods and so that the kids can get educated properly and level up into the middle class and higher. The police are generally not all that different than the other street gangs, especially in cities. The LA County Sheriff has an actual literal street gang operating in it. There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state.

blindriver 4y ago
> Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Murders are "down" in 2023 with only 83 murders since Jan 1, 2023. We are only 10 weeks into the year. > There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. I think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. > Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state. You can't achieve economic security without safety. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? The infant death rate in Baltimore is higher than 3rd world countries. We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. I don't want a police state, but in those areas, that's the only solution.
- cmh89 4y ago
  >If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Would they? Literally everyone who reads the news knows Chicago has a lot of shootings. This sounds like something you made up to drive a narrative rather than basing it in truth. > think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. There is no way it would be effective. Brutal? Yes. Inhumane? Sure. Suffering? Absolutely. The type of person who is attracted to being an authoritarian is not the type of person you want to have power. We already live in a quasi-police state, much more than other countries, and we still have a ton of crime and violence. >You can't achieve economic security without safety. You have that backwards. You can't achieve safety without economic security. >. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? Nope, because wealthy places don't have a ton of crime. I'm not sure how that supports your argument, because it's literally what I'm saying. Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? >We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. Baltimore has more police per capita than other city besides DC https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-capita-city-except-dc/ https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-c... Baltimore is literally the closest city we have to a police state, you apparently don't like the outcome. Edit* @yucky - HN doesn't want me to post and I don't want to come back and remember to post in a hour or whenever I'm allowed to again so here ya are Police are powerful in all communities in the US. Rural people generally have less interaction with the police than urban areas. If you want to kill someone or rob someone in a rural setting, police are almost a non-factor as they wont be nearby.
  - yucky 4y ago
    > Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? Most rural areas are generally quite safe and their police are very powerful in the community.
    - wootland 4y ago
      Most rural areas in the US are ravaged by meth and opioid abuse and the crime that comes along with them.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      From 2016 to 2020 the two counties with the highest gun homicide rates were Phillips County, AR and Lowndes County, AL, both rural.
      - yucky 4y ago
        Assuming you know how statistics work, one shooting in a county with 50 people will skew the stats. But spend some time in your average rural area and then in Detroit, Baltimore, etc. and compare notes. And no, not the trendy 2 block area with the breweries, the area where people actually live.
        kasey_junk 4y ago
        What stat can you possibly use to quantify your argument that shouldn’t be a per capita stat? And for what it’s worth Phillips County was averaging 8 gun deaths a year across that time period for a place that has less than 20k people. That’s a shocking stat even with “small” numbers.
        yucky 4y ago
        It's simple, Detroit has been one of the top cities for murders rate for over 50 years straight. A shooting in a random year will not produce an anomaly there like some random county one year that has a shooting. You're trying to take a small sample size as if it means something. And yet where would you rather be caught at with no phone and no car, some small town or the east side of Detroit? I do find it interesting that you used a predominantly black rural area hoping it would prove a different point though.

by cmh89 4y ago

blindriver 4y ago

> Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Murders are "down" in 2023 with only 83 murders since Jan 1, 2023. We are only 10 weeks into the year. > There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. I think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. > Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state. You can't achieve economic security without safety. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? The infant death rate in Baltimore is higher than 3rd world countries. We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. I don't want a police state, but in those areas, that's the only solution.

cmh89 4y ago
>If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Would they? Literally everyone who reads the news knows Chicago has a lot of shootings. This sounds like something you made up to drive a narrative rather than basing it in truth. > think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. There is no way it would be effective. Brutal? Yes. Inhumane? Sure. Suffering? Absolutely. The type of person who is attracted to being an authoritarian is not the type of person you want to have power. We already live in a quasi-police state, much more than other countries, and we still have a ton of crime and violence. >You can't achieve economic security without safety. You have that backwards. You can't achieve safety without economic security. >. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? Nope, because wealthy places don't have a ton of crime. I'm not sure how that supports your argument, because it's literally what I'm saying. Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? >We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. Baltimore has more police per capita than other city besides DC https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-capita-city-except-dc/ https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-c... Baltimore is literally the closest city we have to a police state, you apparently don't like the outcome. Edit* @yucky - HN doesn't want me to post and I don't want to come back and remember to post in a hour or whenever I'm allowed to again so here ya are Police are powerful in all communities in the US. Rural people generally have less interaction with the police than urban areas. If you want to kill someone or rob someone in a rural setting, police are almost a non-factor as they wont be nearby.
- yucky 4y ago
  > Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? Most rural areas are generally quite safe and their police are very powerful in the community.
  - wootland 4y ago
    Most rural areas in the US are ravaged by meth and opioid abuse and the crime that comes along with them.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    From 2016 to 2020 the two counties with the highest gun homicide rates were Phillips County, AR and Lowndes County, AL, both rural.
    - yucky 4y ago
      Assuming you know how statistics work, one shooting in a county with 50 people will skew the stats. But spend some time in your average rural area and then in Detroit, Baltimore, etc. and compare notes. And no, not the trendy 2 block area with the breweries, the area where people actually live.
      - kasey_junk 4y ago
        What stat can you possibly use to quantify your argument that shouldn’t be a per capita stat? And for what it’s worth Phillips County was averaging 8 gun deaths a year across that time period for a place that has less than 20k people. That’s a shocking stat even with “small” numbers.
        yucky 4y ago
        It's simple, Detroit has been one of the top cities for murders rate for over 50 years straight. A shooting in a random year will not produce an anomaly there like some random county one year that has a shooting. You're trying to take a small sample size as if it means something. And yet where would you rather be caught at with no phone and no car, some small town or the east side of Detroit? I do find it interesting that you used a predominantly black rural area hoping it would prove a different point though.