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Poverty persists because Americans have abandoned the notions of education and safety. Entire cities are destroyed by generational poverty but those are also th

Poverty persists because Americans have abandoned the notions of education and safety. Entire cities are destroyed by generational poverty but those are also the highest in crime. No one talks about the 20+ murders a weekend in South-side Chicago. No one. How do you expect children to get an education and lift themselves out of poverty when they are terrified of being gunned down every single day? The worst parts of the US need a well-trained, well-monitored police state that will bring safety to those neighborhoods and so that the kids can get educated properly and level up into the middle class and higher. I'm all for freedom, but we can only achieve freedom once we have moved up in Maslow's hierarchy, and people in those neighborhoods don't have the foundation to thrive. Second, we need to focus on education. Education, especially when run by people like those in charge of California's education system, is ruinous. Lowering standards only helps those white liberal educators feel better about themselves by seeing graduation percentages go up. But it leaves the children unable to compete and unprepared for the real world. It's like the story of Blind Side, where Michael Oher kept getting graduated to the next grade but he couldn't read. That's what is going on in California, when they start saying that mathematics propagates white supremacy, as if mathematics didn't originate outside of America. I believe the poorest areas of the US should get double or triple the number of teachers, so that class sizes are small and kids get the learning they need. Safety and education. I believe those are what bring people out of poverty. My parents grew up in a war-torn country, and they grew up poor. My grandfather had a gambling addiction and never had enough money to pay tuition for my dad. Both my parents studied their asses off and immigrated to North America, and we became middle class. My siblings and I are all 1%ers or higher, and that's because we could thrive because of the education we received. We need to give kids in the worst areas a chance, but no one cares so places like Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Missouri, etc are all left to fend for themselves in squalor and they will NEVER get out of it by themselves without safety and education.

ainiriand 4y ago
I am sorry but I believe that data suggest that income inequality and marginalization are what cause those issues. No child wakes up one day dreaming about shooting someone. Also, if I am correct, I think teachers and underpaid and schools are working at max capacity. This also creates a big inequality with people that can afford the best schools. And better if we do not talk about the crime that is healthcare in the US...
- prottog 4y ago
  > data suggest that income inequality and marginalization are what cause those issues Being poor and downtrodden forces one to turn to street violence? Nonsense. Poor kids raised in cultures that value education and self-improvement are able to turn their lives around. Poor kids in cultures that value other things aren't, which obviously isn't the fault of the kids, but there is only so much the state can do to step between the parent and the child.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    Can you elaborate on what "cultures" don't value education and self-improvement?
    - Beached 4y ago
      i think he means gang culture
    - prottog 4y ago
      As the other commenter replied, inner-city gang culture is a principal example that is destructive to so many children's futures. Even among groups that would be categorized together in the US, such as African-Americans, you can see a clear divided in outcomes between cultures; Nigerian-Americans, for example, have a higher average income than the US average, and nearly twice that of Somali-Americans. Average incomes for black people who immigrated to the US is considerably higher than those native-born. Or take Indian-Americans vs. Bangladeshi-Americans, whose original countries are next to each other and have comparable GDP per capita; yet the former group has an average income more than twice the latter. And you can imagine that whatever prejudices an Indian-American faces, a Bangladeshi-American faces equally. There's no evidence historically to suggest that cultural groups that value human capital differently should end up at similar levels of wealth over time.
      - cmh89 4y ago
        >As the other commenter replied, inner-city gang culture is a principal example that is destructive to so many children's futures. Why do you think 'inner-city' gang culture develops? >Even among groups that would be categorized together in the US, such as African-Americans, you can see a clear divided in outcomes between cultures; Nigerian-Americans, for example, have a higher average income than the US average, and nearly twice that of Somali-Americans. What are the differences in immigration reason for these groups? I'm not familiar with Nigerian immigration, but Somalian immigration is driven by leaving strife and come as refugees. Is that the case for Nigerians? You can't judge how successful a culture is just because of their income, you have to know where they started and what resources they have access to. > Average incomes for black people who immigrated to the US is considerably higher than those native-born. It makes sense to me that people who can afford and have the qualifications needed to emigrate to the US will have better job prospects than people living in generational poverty and enduring systemic racism.
cmh89 4y ago
> No one talks about the 20+ murders a weekend in South-side Chicago. No one. How do you expect children to get an education and lift themselves out of poverty when they are terrified of being gunned down every single day? Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. >The worst parts of the US need a well-trained, well-monitored police state that will bring safety to those neighborhoods and so that the kids can get educated properly and level up into the middle class and higher. The police are generally not all that different than the other street gangs, especially in cities. The LA County Sheriff has an actual literal street gang operating in it. There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state.
- blindriver 4y ago
  > Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Murders are "down" in 2023 with only 83 murders since Jan 1, 2023. We are only 10 weeks into the year. > There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. I think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. > Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state. You can't achieve economic security without safety. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? The infant death rate in Baltimore is higher than 3rd world countries. We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. I don't want a police state, but in those areas, that's the only solution.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    >If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Would they? Literally everyone who reads the news knows Chicago has a lot of shootings. This sounds like something you made up to drive a narrative rather than basing it in truth. > think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. There is no way it would be effective. Brutal? Yes. Inhumane? Sure. Suffering? Absolutely. The type of person who is attracted to being an authoritarian is not the type of person you want to have power. We already live in a quasi-police state, much more than other countries, and we still have a ton of crime and violence. >You can't achieve economic security without safety. You have that backwards. You can't achieve safety without economic security. >. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? Nope, because wealthy places don't have a ton of crime. I'm not sure how that supports your argument, because it's literally what I'm saying. Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? >We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. Baltimore has more police per capita than other city besides DC https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-capita-city-except-dc/ https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-c... Baltimore is literally the closest city we have to a police state, you apparently don't like the outcome. Edit* @yucky - HN doesn't want me to post and I don't want to come back and remember to post in a hour or whenever I'm allowed to again so here ya are Police are powerful in all communities in the US. Rural people generally have less interaction with the police than urban areas. If you want to kill someone or rob someone in a rural setting, police are almost a non-factor as they wont be nearby.

ainiriand 4y ago

I am sorry but I believe that data suggest that income inequality and marginalization are what cause those issues. No child wakes up one day dreaming about shooting someone. Also, if I am correct, I think teachers and underpaid and schools are working at max capacity. This also creates a big inequality with people that can afford the best schools. And better if we do not talk about the crime that is healthcare in the US...

prottog 4y ago
> data suggest that income inequality and marginalization are what cause those issues Being poor and downtrodden forces one to turn to street violence? Nonsense. Poor kids raised in cultures that value education and self-improvement are able to turn their lives around. Poor kids in cultures that value other things aren't, which obviously isn't the fault of the kids, but there is only so much the state can do to step between the parent and the child.
- cmh89 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on what "cultures" don't value education and self-improvement?
  - Beached 4y ago
    i think he means gang culture
  - prottog 4y ago
    As the other commenter replied, inner-city gang culture is a principal example that is destructive to so many children's futures. Even among groups that would be categorized together in the US, such as African-Americans, you can see a clear divided in outcomes between cultures; Nigerian-Americans, for example, have a higher average income than the US average, and nearly twice that of Somali-Americans. Average incomes for black people who immigrated to the US is considerably higher than those native-born. Or take Indian-Americans vs. Bangladeshi-Americans, whose original countries are next to each other and have comparable GDP per capita; yet the former group has an average income more than twice the latter. And you can imagine that whatever prejudices an Indian-American faces, a Bangladeshi-American faces equally. There's no evidence historically to suggest that cultural groups that value human capital differently should end up at similar levels of wealth over time.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      >As the other commenter replied, inner-city gang culture is a principal example that is destructive to so many children's futures. Why do you think 'inner-city' gang culture develops? >Even among groups that would be categorized together in the US, such as African-Americans, you can see a clear divided in outcomes between cultures; Nigerian-Americans, for example, have a higher average income than the US average, and nearly twice that of Somali-Americans. What are the differences in immigration reason for these groups? I'm not familiar with Nigerian immigration, but Somalian immigration is driven by leaving strife and come as refugees. Is that the case for Nigerians? You can't judge how successful a culture is just because of their income, you have to know where they started and what resources they have access to. > Average incomes for black people who immigrated to the US is considerably higher than those native-born. It makes sense to me that people who can afford and have the qualifications needed to emigrate to the US will have better job prospects than people living in generational poverty and enduring systemic racism.

cmh89 4y ago

> No one talks about the 20+ murders a weekend in South-side Chicago. No one. How do you expect children to get an education and lift themselves out of poverty when they are terrified of being gunned down every single day? Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. >The worst parts of the US need a well-trained, well-monitored police state that will bring safety to those neighborhoods and so that the kids can get educated properly and level up into the middle class and higher. The police are generally not all that different than the other street gangs, especially in cities. The LA County Sheriff has an actual literal street gang operating in it. There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state.

blindriver 4y ago
> Crime in Chicago isn't talked about? That's not been my experience. It's literally infamous for it. If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Murders are "down" in 2023 with only 83 murders since Jan 1, 2023. We are only 10 weeks into the year. > There is no such thing as a 'well-monitored' police state. I think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. > Safety and education can only be achieved through economic security, not incarceration and abuse by the state. You can't achieve economic security without safety. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? The infant death rate in Baltimore is higher than 3rd world countries. We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. I don't want a police state, but in those areas, that's the only solution.
- cmh89 4y ago
  >If you ask your coworker today, how many shootings were there in Chicago last weekend, unless you live in or near Chicago, they will be shocked that there were 17 shootings and 4 homicides just over the weekend. Would they? Literally everyone who reads the news knows Chicago has a lot of shootings. This sounds like something you made up to drive a narrative rather than basing it in truth. > think if enough money is poured into it, with enough eyeballs on it, and a high level of training, it can be very effective. There is no way it would be effective. Brutal? Yes. Inhumane? Sure. Suffering? Absolutely. The type of person who is attracted to being an authoritarian is not the type of person you want to have power. We already live in a quasi-police state, much more than other countries, and we still have a ton of crime and violence. >You can't achieve economic security without safety. You have that backwards. You can't achieve safety without economic security. >. Can you name a single wealthy location with as high a crime rate as South side Chicago or Baltimore? Nope, because wealthy places don't have a ton of crime. I'm not sure how that supports your argument, because it's literally what I'm saying. Can you point to a very poor place that is safe due to the police? >We have fucking ABANDONED Baltimore and it's disgusting. Baltimore has more police per capita than other city besides DC https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-capita-city-except-dc/ https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/baltimore-police-per-c... Baltimore is literally the closest city we have to a police state, you apparently don't like the outcome. Edit* @yucky - HN doesn't want me to post and I don't want to come back and remember to post in a hour or whenever I'm allowed to again so here ya are Police are powerful in all communities in the US. Rural people generally have less interaction with the police than urban areas. If you want to kill someone or rob someone in a rural setting, police are almost a non-factor as they wont be nearby.