7 ms·

Are we publishing a story every-time someone gets in an accident with adaptive cruise control? It would be hard to buy a car in 2023 that didn't have adaptive

by dham 4y ago

Are we publishing a story every-time someone gets in an accident with adaptive cruise control? It would be hard to buy a car in 2023 that didn't have adaptive cruise control with lane assist, which is all autopilot is.

bentlegen 4y ago
My Mazda CX-5 has those adaptive cruise features. Nowhere in the manual is it described as “autopilot”. If that’s all autopilot is, why not market it as adaptive cruise control? Search in your heart, I believe you know the answer.
- dham 4y ago
  Yes, that's the problem. Autopilot was named Autopilot which is just ACC. Full self driving is level 2 self driving. FSD should be renamed to Autopilot and Autopilot just take on another name or just ACC.
  - TheAlchemist 4y ago
    But then, the company itself could be worth 0 (per Musk own estimation). That is the real problem.
    - v0idzer0 4y ago
      Why would a company with billions in quarterly profits be worth zero?
      - richbell 4y ago
        Ask Elon Musk. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-basically-zero-without-self-driving-2022-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-basica...
      - dtagames 4y ago
        If it weren't for tax handouts, stock manipulation, and crypto schemes, it would be worth zero now.
  - chemmail 4y ago
    Just because one does not know the definition of Autopilot, doesn't make on right. If you look at the definition you will se that "Autopilots do not replace human operators."
    - richbell 4y ago
      > Just because one does not know the definition of Autopilot, doesn't make on right. If you look at the definition you will se that "Autopilots do not replace human operators." If someone needs to know the definition of a feature in order to dispel myths based on the name, surely you can admit it's a bad/misleading name?
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      I make a product which features what I call: ToddlerSafe. One warning though: my product is not safe for toddlers.
    - piva00 4y ago
      It'd get very onerous for the consumer to keep track of all the deceiving practices that every business could throw at them if we go down that path. You are basically stating that it's the consumer's job to know when a marketing tactic is deceiving them, that simply doesn't work in a society... Or why do you think there are consumer protection laws?
  - bigkm 4y ago
    Auto pilot in a plane will still fly you into whatever is in front of you.
    - dham 4y ago
      But the general public knows very little about aviation technology unforunately.
- v0idzer0 4y ago
  What is your definition of autopilot? Are you okay with your pilot taking a nap on your next flight? Adaptive cruise control with lane assist is a nearly perfect analogy for what autopilot does on an aircraft, which is the origin of the word.
  - 7e 4y ago
    God, I hope not. Planes on real autopilot crash a lot less than Tesla’s product does.
dekhn 4y ago
Does your adaptive cruise control drive into fire trucks that are partially blocking a freeway? I'm pretty sure mine would not- but I don't plan to test it (I never enable it).
- dham 4y ago
  Yea probably. I think people overestimate what these cars can do. I wouldn't want to test it, but after being into this stuff for a while it probably would. Longitudinal control is radar based in mainstream ACC, but I know for a fact that it would probably brake too late going 70mph with something sitting in the road . Open pilot's new longitudinal is vision based but it's probably not trained on a fire truck in the middle of a highway.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    > but it's probably not trained on a fire truck in the middle of a highway This is such a staggeringly, damning statement to be made about the state of self driving technology in 2023 - yet it's significance will be completely lost on so many people.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      This strikes me as exactly the problem of these ML/AI based vision approaches. There doesn't seem to be any higher level self protection layer on top of it to handle the general cases of the 1000s of things that have not been specifically trained yet/ever. The current state of Tesla AP/FSD willfully ignores the saying "Things that never happened before happen all the time". If you have ever lived somewhere like NYC you will have seen things happen on the road that can never be trained. I remember the example of FSD trying to turn left across the path of an oncoming trolley car. What is incredible was that the UI had rendered the trolley, so it knew a large object was moving towards it and yet decided to turn. Similar responses from Tesla booster of "well it was never trained on trolleys before, and now it is". What is it going to do when a car goes the wrong way down the road? What is it going to do when someone is cruising in reverse half a block to get a parking spot? We can think of untrained scenarios all day. "Big moving object closing on my trajectory" seems like a general case being missed.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
Play extraordinarily suggestive claims games, win extraordinarily suggestive claims prizes. Unfortunately that’s a much more forgiving consequence than the traditional equation.
criley2 4y ago
We aren't talking about "adaptive cruise control". We're talking about "Full Self-Driving". Your entire point is predicated on mislabeling Elon's fraudulent service. Yes, every time Elon's "Full Self-Driving" technology gets into a horrific accident and exposes the depths of the lies he peddles, it will become news. If Tesla labeled the technology "adaptive cruise control", 90% of these stories would go away. No one cares about any other companies cruise control. They only care about "10X Tesla // autonomous taxi // Full Self Driving" future cars getting into accidents.

by dham 4y ago

bentlegen 4y ago

My Mazda CX-5 has those adaptive cruise features. Nowhere in the manual is it described as “autopilot”. If that’s all autopilot is, why not market it as adaptive cruise control? Search in your heart, I believe you know the answer.

dham 4y ago
Yes, that's the problem. Autopilot was named Autopilot which is just ACC. Full self driving is level 2 self driving. FSD should be renamed to Autopilot and Autopilot just take on another name or just ACC.
- TheAlchemist 4y ago
  But then, the company itself could be worth 0 (per Musk own estimation). That is the real problem.
  - v0idzer0 4y ago
    Why would a company with billions in quarterly profits be worth zero?
    - richbell 4y ago
      Ask Elon Musk. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-basically-zero-without-self-driving-2022-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-basica...
    - dtagames 4y ago
      If it weren't for tax handouts, stock manipulation, and crypto schemes, it would be worth zero now.
- chemmail 4y ago
  Just because one does not know the definition of Autopilot, doesn't make on right. If you look at the definition you will se that "Autopilots do not replace human operators."
  - richbell 4y ago
    > Just because one does not know the definition of Autopilot, doesn't make on right. If you look at the definition you will se that "Autopilots do not replace human operators." If someone needs to know the definition of a feature in order to dispel myths based on the name, surely you can admit it's a bad/misleading name?
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    I make a product which features what I call: ToddlerSafe. One warning though: my product is not safe for toddlers.
  - piva00 4y ago
    It'd get very onerous for the consumer to keep track of all the deceiving practices that every business could throw at them if we go down that path. You are basically stating that it's the consumer's job to know when a marketing tactic is deceiving them, that simply doesn't work in a society... Or why do you think there are consumer protection laws?
- bigkm 4y ago
  Auto pilot in a plane will still fly you into whatever is in front of you.
  - dham 4y ago
    But the general public knows very little about aviation technology unforunately.
v0idzer0 4y ago
What is your definition of autopilot? Are you okay with your pilot taking a nap on your next flight? Adaptive cruise control with lane assist is a nearly perfect analogy for what autopilot does on an aircraft, which is the origin of the word.
- 7e 4y ago
  God, I hope not. Planes on real autopilot crash a lot less than Tesla’s product does.

dekhn 4y ago

Does your adaptive cruise control drive into fire trucks that are partially blocking a freeway? I'm pretty sure mine would not- but I don't plan to test it (I never enable it).

dham 4y ago
Yea probably. I think people overestimate what these cars can do. I wouldn't want to test it, but after being into this stuff for a while it probably would. Longitudinal control is radar based in mainstream ACC, but I know for a fact that it would probably brake too late going 70mph with something sitting in the road . Open pilot's new longitudinal is vision based but it's probably not trained on a fire truck in the middle of a highway.
- Alupis 4y ago
  > but it's probably not trained on a fire truck in the middle of a highway This is such a staggeringly, damning statement to be made about the state of self driving technology in 2023 - yet it's significance will be completely lost on so many people.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    This strikes me as exactly the problem of these ML/AI based vision approaches. There doesn't seem to be any higher level self protection layer on top of it to handle the general cases of the 1000s of things that have not been specifically trained yet/ever. The current state of Tesla AP/FSD willfully ignores the saying "Things that never happened before happen all the time". If you have ever lived somewhere like NYC you will have seen things happen on the road that can never be trained. I remember the example of FSD trying to turn left across the path of an oncoming trolley car. What is incredible was that the UI had rendered the trolley, so it knew a large object was moving towards it and yet decided to turn. Similar responses from Tesla booster of "well it was never trained on trolleys before, and now it is". What is it going to do when a car goes the wrong way down the road? What is it going to do when someone is cruising in reverse half a block to get a parking spot? We can think of untrained scenarios all day. "Big moving object closing on my trajectory" seems like a general case being missed.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

Play extraordinarily suggestive claims games, win extraordinarily suggestive claims prizes. Unfortunately that’s a much more forgiving consequence than the traditional equation.

criley2 4y ago

We aren't talking about "adaptive cruise control". We're talking about "Full Self-Driving". Your entire point is predicated on mislabeling Elon's fraudulent service. Yes, every time Elon's "Full Self-Driving" technology gets into a horrific accident and exposes the depths of the lies he peddles, it will become news. If Tesla labeled the technology "adaptive cruise control", 90% of these stories would go away. No one cares about any other companies cruise control. They only care about "10X Tesla // autonomous taxi // Full Self Driving" future cars getting into accidents.