5 ms·

I agree, but it’s not so evident or easy for the average person. Who wants to deal with managing storage? Cloud will typically win for the masses, who are typic

I agree, but it’s not so evident or easy for the average person. Who wants to deal with managing storage? Cloud will typically win for the masses, who are typically not thinking about privacy and may not know the difference between a SSD and HDD

WaitWaitWha 4y ago
I agree many are not willing, but I disagree that it is not "easy for the average person". One can walk into a local supermarket on any planet(e.g., Walkmart, Sam's Club, Carrefour, Aldi, Tesco, Auchan) and likely be able to pick up a self-managed NVR with cameras. If it was not relatively easy, I do not believe these companies would carry them. You are right, many are not willing.
bcrosby95 4y ago
I've long wondered why something like a general computing device maintenance service hasn't become a thing. I guess cloud storage stepped in and removed the need. When my AC unit broke I didn't need to know the finer decisions surrounding which unit to choose. I have weekly visits from the pool guy for a pool and gardener for the landscaping. A yearly termite check and AC/furnace maintenance. And so on.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  Your pool, landscaping, and traditional appliances are all fairly mature and stable in a way that lets local workers learn basic, repurposeable maintenance skills that last a long time and cover a large number of clients. We won’t have that for home compute appliances until hardware/interface innovation slows down, and that’d actually been trending in the other direction for a while now. It will stabilize, even while innovation happens at other layers, but core stability plays a huge role in what you have in mind here. Cloud stuff basically hid that that stuff on the other side of a pipe for a while, but has its own drawbacks and we’re likely seeing the start of a turn away from it.
  - rlyshw 4y ago
    Linux has been pretty stable for decades now. I’ve been using the same core configs and bulk data in my home compute environment basically since I started using Linux. Remote repos for any syncing needs, then just tar/rsync bulk archive data over. Store longer term or stale data on older decommissioned HDDs. I’ve been running more or less the same services through hardware, hypervisor, and now kubernetes migrations and revisions. It seems to me doing things “the Linux way”, sticking to open source where possible, is resistant to the fast pace of the consumer innovation market. When anything new comes along, it’s usually relatively trivial to transfer over.
    - rlyshw 4y ago
      I know that this is a typical HN post, assuming everyone should become a Linux sysadmin. But related to the parent, and recent developments in Zero Trust Access products, I wonder if there is a pathway towards neighborhood-scale sysadmin services. I mean, I essentially provide that to my small social community with a private media tenant. With ZTA systems in place to accommodate remote access, maybe there is an appetite for neighbor-to-neighbor network sysadmin services? Hard to compete with the sleek silos of big box brands and their infinite marketing budget, plus 5 9s of service, though.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        If only there were some sort of regional authority, a local group of people to whom we all gave money to, that could hire someone to administer such a system. This group could take on the responsibility of running, not just this neighborhood network system, but also, I dunno, the fire department and the police department and maybe also the schools? I know it's an "out there" crazy silicon valley leftist idea but maybe something like that could work? Okay no but for reals, the USPS could do that!
        rlyshw 4y ago
        USPS might be mired in fed scale problems. Maybe a Library is more appropriate? At least, more directly accessible at the local level. I’m just not sure how exactly that would work, or operate thru existing library organization… I think the incentive of a trade/artisan economy would make more sense, and justify individualized labor (house calls for NAS reconfiguration, for instance). Like a plumbing contractor vs inspector… I like the socialized idea, but I don’t see how the implementation would work under current social service labor system and organization…
- link_108 4y ago
  I think services like Geek Squad fill this need
  - froggit 4y ago
    I used to work for geek squad. They actually subcontract any work that can't specifically be done in store. I'd hardly call their service "general purpose computing maintenance" as it only extends to things they've done the install for and that's limited to items sold at the store. However they will provide maintenance, via those subcontractors, to items that fit that scope, such as replacing the bulbs for home theater projectors when they burn out.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- vault_ 4y ago
  It's not "general purpose computing" maintenance, but the service you're talking about does exist, though AFAIK mostly at the very high-end. It's typically for things like home theaters, whole-home audio systems, or smart-home type setups (predating and now merging with current consumer IoT/home automation platforms). Not sure how much that's "maintenance" in the typical sense so much as support for their custom install work, but I bet if you had a Sonos or Lutron system where your installer went out of business you'd be able to find a different guy to deal with it.
- deepakhj 4y ago
  Fully managed security camera solution with LTE. They'll repair or service it if there's vandalism or any issues. https://www.flocksafety.com/ https://www.flocksafety.com/
- r3trohack3r 4y ago
  You can't offer a similar service at a substantially reduced priced by centralizing maintenance of your pool. Same for termites. Those have to happen on site. For software, there are strong incentives on both sides of the transaction (buyer and seller) for a system to be remotely managed.
- ikiris 4y ago
  It's called the cloud. You're arguing against it.
User23 4y ago
If you buy a Synology NAS there's really not much to manage. Other than inserting the drives and waiting for it to initialize, it's not considerably harder than setting up an account somewhere. It also has apps for security cameras.
rtkwe 4y ago
Most security video recorders will just let you set automatic limits to the storage or age of recordings it's not that hard to just dedicate a small part of an attached or internal HDD to recordings and forget about it.
bbarn 4y ago
How much storage do you need? Unless it's proof to the negative, which in most jurisdictions isn't something you'd ever need to prove, as the burden is on something occurring, after some amount of time most recordings are useless?
- dylan604 4y ago
  How much storage do you need? is a classic question as old as time. the classic response is "how much you got?"
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I store 48 hours worth unless I'm going to be gone for a long period of time, then I store everything for the duration that I'm gone. My thinking is that if something happens that I need the footage for, I'll know that I need it within 48 hours. A 32Gb flash card is able to store about 2 week's worth of video in my system.

WaitWaitWha 4y ago

I agree many are not willing, but I disagree that it is not "easy for the average person". One can walk into a local supermarket on any planet(e.g., Walkmart, Sam's Club, Carrefour, Aldi, Tesco, Auchan) and likely be able to pick up a self-managed NVR with cameras. If it was not relatively easy, I do not believe these companies would carry them. You are right, many are not willing.

bcrosby95 4y ago

I've long wondered why something like a general computing device maintenance service hasn't become a thing. I guess cloud storage stepped in and removed the need. When my AC unit broke I didn't need to know the finer decisions surrounding which unit to choose. I have weekly visits from the pool guy for a pool and gardener for the landscaping. A yearly termite check and AC/furnace maintenance. And so on.

swatcoder 4y ago
Your pool, landscaping, and traditional appliances are all fairly mature and stable in a way that lets local workers learn basic, repurposeable maintenance skills that last a long time and cover a large number of clients. We won’t have that for home compute appliances until hardware/interface innovation slows down, and that’d actually been trending in the other direction for a while now. It will stabilize, even while innovation happens at other layers, but core stability plays a huge role in what you have in mind here. Cloud stuff basically hid that that stuff on the other side of a pipe for a while, but has its own drawbacks and we’re likely seeing the start of a turn away from it.
- rlyshw 4y ago
  Linux has been pretty stable for decades now. I’ve been using the same core configs and bulk data in my home compute environment basically since I started using Linux. Remote repos for any syncing needs, then just tar/rsync bulk archive data over. Store longer term or stale data on older decommissioned HDDs. I’ve been running more or less the same services through hardware, hypervisor, and now kubernetes migrations and revisions. It seems to me doing things “the Linux way”, sticking to open source where possible, is resistant to the fast pace of the consumer innovation market. When anything new comes along, it’s usually relatively trivial to transfer over.
  - rlyshw 4y ago
    I know that this is a typical HN post, assuming everyone should become a Linux sysadmin. But related to the parent, and recent developments in Zero Trust Access products, I wonder if there is a pathway towards neighborhood-scale sysadmin services. I mean, I essentially provide that to my small social community with a private media tenant. With ZTA systems in place to accommodate remote access, maybe there is an appetite for neighbor-to-neighbor network sysadmin services? Hard to compete with the sleek silos of big box brands and their infinite marketing budget, plus 5 9s of service, though.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      If only there were some sort of regional authority, a local group of people to whom we all gave money to, that could hire someone to administer such a system. This group could take on the responsibility of running, not just this neighborhood network system, but also, I dunno, the fire department and the police department and maybe also the schools? I know it's an "out there" crazy silicon valley leftist idea but maybe something like that could work? Okay no but for reals, the USPS could do that!
      - rlyshw 4y ago
        USPS might be mired in fed scale problems. Maybe a Library is more appropriate? At least, more directly accessible at the local level. I’m just not sure how exactly that would work, or operate thru existing library organization… I think the incentive of a trade/artisan economy would make more sense, and justify individualized labor (house calls for NAS reconfiguration, for instance). Like a plumbing contractor vs inspector… I like the socialized idea, but I don’t see how the implementation would work under current social service labor system and organization…
link_108 4y ago
I think services like Geek Squad fill this need
- froggit 4y ago
  I used to work for geek squad. They actually subcontract any work that can't specifically be done in store. I'd hardly call their service "general purpose computing maintenance" as it only extends to things they've done the install for and that's limited to items sold at the store. However they will provide maintenance, via those subcontractors, to items that fit that scope, such as replacing the bulbs for home theater projectors when they burn out.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
vault_ 4y ago
It's not "general purpose computing" maintenance, but the service you're talking about does exist, though AFAIK mostly at the very high-end. It's typically for things like home theaters, whole-home audio systems, or smart-home type setups (predating and now merging with current consumer IoT/home automation platforms). Not sure how much that's "maintenance" in the typical sense so much as support for their custom install work, but I bet if you had a Sonos or Lutron system where your installer went out of business you'd be able to find a different guy to deal with it.
deepakhj 4y ago
Fully managed security camera solution with LTE. They'll repair or service it if there's vandalism or any issues. https://www.flocksafety.com/ https://www.flocksafety.com/
r3trohack3r 4y ago
You can't offer a similar service at a substantially reduced priced by centralizing maintenance of your pool. Same for termites. Those have to happen on site. For software, there are strong incentives on both sides of the transaction (buyer and seller) for a system to be remotely managed.
ikiris 4y ago
It's called the cloud. You're arguing against it.

User23 4y ago

If you buy a Synology NAS there's really not much to manage. Other than inserting the drives and waiting for it to initialize, it's not considerably harder than setting up an account somewhere. It also has apps for security cameras.

rtkwe 4y ago

Most security video recorders will just let you set automatic limits to the storage or age of recordings it's not that hard to just dedicate a small part of an attached or internal HDD to recordings and forget about it.

bbarn 4y ago

How much storage do you need? Unless it's proof to the negative, which in most jurisdictions isn't something you'd ever need to prove, as the burden is on something occurring, after some amount of time most recordings are useless?

dylan604 4y ago
How much storage do you need? is a classic question as old as time. the classic response is "how much you got?"
JohnFen 4y ago
I store 48 hours worth unless I'm going to be gone for a long period of time, then I store everything for the duration that I'm gone. My thinking is that if something happens that I need the footage for, I'll know that I need it within 48 hours. A 32Gb flash card is able to store about 2 week's worth of video in my system.