8 ms·

Stripe increases prices for US businesses starting June first, 2023

57 points by maz1b 4y ago

maz1b 4y ago
From an email from Stripe: "Hello, We’re letting you know about Stripe pricing changes for international card transactions, disputes, and sales tax, starting June 1, 2023. We also want to share ways we can help you reduce costs and grow revenue. International card transactions "Over the past few years, card networks have increased the total fees that Stripe pays for card processing. Because of these costs, starting June 1, Stripe’s additional fee for international card transactions will change from 1.0% to 1.5%. There’s no change to our standard 2.9% + $0.30 pricing for US card transactions. [...] Disputes Whether you win or lose a dispute, card networks charge Stripe a fee in either case. To cover these costs, starting June 1, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes. The dispute fee itself is not changing." Thoughts?
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  My worry: your org has committed a corporate sin. 100 people go ahead with a $5 donation. They all call their banks the next day to contest it. Your org owes now stripe $1500. Rinse, repeat.
  - pid-1 4y ago
    Someone quickly think of a DDoS like name for this attack
  - maz1b 4y ago
    Exactly. Definitely can see this happening.
kilobite88 4y ago
Chargeback abuse is mushrooming. Word's getting out that chargebacks are free refunds. No need to engage the merchant anymore. Very selfish customers are now able to get their product and eat it too, for free. Instead of being an advocate for their customers to the financial institutions, Stripe is siding with them and we all have to fend for ourselves. Obviously, consumer protection mechanisms are needed and around for a good reason, but something happened during the pandemic. People don't care anymore. Look it up, chargeback fraud has massively increased since 2020.
- cyanydeez 4y ago
  Customers are just smart precapitalists.
  - j16sdiz 4y ago
    I think issuing bank would block the card owner if they file chargebacks too much / too often. Is it not true anymore?
    - rchaud 4y ago
      Visa and Mastercard cut off vendors that are pinged with too many chargebacks. It's partially why they avoid dealing with porn site payments. Too many people use the service and then claim it wasn't them.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  It's beyond just 'theft', really. It's punitive - charging you fees, and damaging your reputation with payment systems - while taking whatever item/service you offered. I doubt Stripe is big enough to fight their partners on something like this anyway though.
- quags 4y ago
  My first business selling software in 98!ended after two charge backs. I just didn’t want to continue and at the time being a teen didn’t know it was possible luckily I moved on selling again on the internet services , also easy to charge back. I can’t say it’s higher, 1-2% of volume maybe at the high end, sometimes it’s a stolen card some times it is abuse even though I do offer refunds. I am not a crypto bro by any means but have to say I love crypto payments because there are no charge backs.
- zkirill 4y ago
  Would it be legal for merchants to band together, share a pool of cards with a history of chargebacks, and block payments from those cards?
  - 4y ago
joshstrange 4y ago
> Whether you win or lose a dispute, card networks charge Stripe a fee in either case. To cover these costs, starting June 1, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes. The dispute fee itself is not changing." Chargebacks drive me absolutely insane and it's not even my money (it's through a service I provide). These people come and use the service, get goods, etc then issue a chargeback and WIN even though I can lay out a perfect timeline of their actions. I write/run event payment software and I've had people buy entry or "food tickets", spend/redeem them, then 2-3 days later issue a chargeback. Makes my blood boil and it feels like fighting chargebacks is a complete waste of my time. I don't think I won one (out of a handful from the last event). If I had my way I'd blacklist that person/card and if they tried to come again next year I'd confront them at the gate and tell them they can't enter unless they first pay for last year's chargeback on camera. These are people who don't even reach out for a refund or with an issue (I know, all support goes through me and a link to file tickets is plastered everywhere on the website and in the app). Sorry for the rant but this issue makes me irrationally mad.
- edflsafoiewq 4y ago
  It will never cease to amaze me you can pay for things with magical leprechaun money that disappears later.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    Not everyone can follow in the footsteps of ProtonVPN, who will let you mail an envelope of cash to a PO box in Switzerland if you want to.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      Mullvad does, and they're a hell of a lot more trustworthy than Proton.
  - Ferret7446 4y ago
    That's why cryptocurrency is attractive to some people.
nickphx 4y ago
I had a merchant account in 2006 for selling windows utility software. People would dispute the charges for any number of reasons. It's been my experience that merchant banks would never return the interbank fee (if you refunded) or the chargeback processing fee (regardless of outcome)..
mdaniel 4y ago
heh, relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35074633 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35074633 (Stripe Is Raising $6B to Resolve Employee Tax Issue)
benmorris 4y ago
I'm thankful to have a very low percentage of chargebacks for the amount of transactions I process. However,the process sucks. These days if a customer wants they can essentially get whatever they buy for free. I've gone down the rabbit hole several times leading up to arbitration and given up. In most cases it is a few hundred $ so it just isn't worth the fight. I 'win' the first round most of the time, the issue becomes if there is a second dispute for the same transaction, that is when it becomes nearly impossible to win without more compelling evidence.

57 points by maz1b 4y ago

From an email from Stripe: "Hello, We’re letting you know about Stripe pricing changes for international card transactions, disputes, and sales tax, starting June 1, 2023. We also want to share ways we can help you reduce costs and grow revenue. International card transactions "Over the past few years, card networks have increased the total fees that Stripe pays for card processing. Because of these costs, starting June 1, Stripe’s additional fee for international card transactions will change from 1.0% to 1.5%. There’s no change to our standard 2.9% + $0.30 pricing for US card transactions. [...] Disputes Whether you win or lose a dispute, card networks charge Stripe a fee in either case. To cover these costs, starting June 1, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes. The dispute fee itself is not changing." Thoughts?

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
My worry: your org has committed a corporate sin. 100 people go ahead with a $5 donation. They all call their banks the next day to contest it. Your org owes now stripe $1500. Rinse, repeat.
- pid-1 4y ago
  Someone quickly think of a DDoS like name for this attack
- maz1b 4y ago
  Exactly. Definitely can see this happening.

kilobite88 4y ago

Chargeback abuse is mushrooming. Word's getting out that chargebacks are free refunds. No need to engage the merchant anymore. Very selfish customers are now able to get their product and eat it too, for free. Instead of being an advocate for their customers to the financial institutions, Stripe is siding with them and we all have to fend for ourselves. Obviously, consumer protection mechanisms are needed and around for a good reason, but something happened during the pandemic. People don't care anymore. Look it up, chargeback fraud has massively increased since 2020.

cyanydeez 4y ago
Customers are just smart precapitalists.
- j16sdiz 4y ago
  I think issuing bank would block the card owner if they file chargebacks too much / too often. Is it not true anymore?
  - rchaud 4y ago
    Visa and Mastercard cut off vendors that are pinged with too many chargebacks. It's partially why they avoid dealing with porn site payments. Too many people use the service and then claim it wasn't them.
mgkimsal 4y ago
It's beyond just 'theft', really. It's punitive - charging you fees, and damaging your reputation with payment systems - while taking whatever item/service you offered. I doubt Stripe is big enough to fight their partners on something like this anyway though.
quags 4y ago
My first business selling software in 98!ended after two charge backs. I just didn’t want to continue and at the time being a teen didn’t know it was possible luckily I moved on selling again on the internet services , also easy to charge back. I can’t say it’s higher, 1-2% of volume maybe at the high end, sometimes it’s a stolen card some times it is abuse even though I do offer refunds. I am not a crypto bro by any means but have to say I love crypto payments because there are no charge backs.
zkirill 4y ago
Would it be legal for merchants to band together, share a pool of cards with a history of chargebacks, and block payments from those cards?
- 4y ago

joshstrange 4y ago

> Whether you win or lose a dispute, card networks charge Stripe a fee in either case. To cover these costs, starting June 1, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes. The dispute fee itself is not changing." Chargebacks drive me absolutely insane and it's not even my money (it's through a service I provide). These people come and use the service, get goods, etc then issue a chargeback and WIN even though I can lay out a perfect timeline of their actions. I write/run event payment software and I've had people buy entry or "food tickets", spend/redeem them, then 2-3 days later issue a chargeback. Makes my blood boil and it feels like fighting chargebacks is a complete waste of my time. I don't think I won one (out of a handful from the last event). If I had my way I'd blacklist that person/card and if they tried to come again next year I'd confront them at the gate and tell them they can't enter unless they first pay for last year's chargeback on camera. These are people who don't even reach out for a refund or with an issue (I know, all support goes through me and a link to file tickets is plastered everywhere on the website and in the app). Sorry for the rant but this issue makes me irrationally mad.

edflsafoiewq 4y ago
It will never cease to amaze me you can pay for things with magical leprechaun money that disappears later.
- rchaud 4y ago
  Not everyone can follow in the footsteps of ProtonVPN, who will let you mail an envelope of cash to a PO box in Switzerland if you want to.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    Mullvad does, and they're a hell of a lot more trustworthy than Proton.
- Ferret7446 4y ago
  That's why cryptocurrency is attractive to some people.

nickphx 4y ago

I had a merchant account in 2006 for selling windows utility software. People would dispute the charges for any number of reasons. It's been my experience that merchant banks would never return the interbank fee (if you refunded) or the chargeback processing fee (regardless of outcome)..

mdaniel 4y ago

heh, relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35074633 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35074633 (Stripe Is Raising $6B to Resolve Employee Tax Issue)

benmorris 4y ago

I'm thankful to have a very low percentage of chargebacks for the amount of transactions I process. However,the process sucks. These days if a customer wants they can essentially get whatever they buy for free. I've gone down the rabbit hole several times leading up to arbitration and given up. In most cases it is a few hundred $ so it just isn't worth the fight. I 'win' the first round most of the time, the issue becomes if there is a second dispute for the same transaction, that is when it becomes nearly impossible to win without more compelling evidence.