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Normal web search is doomed. The people creating SEO out of ChatGPT dont realize that I am not going to be searching for answers by reading page upon page of SE

by windex 4y ago

Normal web search is doomed. The people creating SEO out of ChatGPT dont realize that I am not going to be searching for answers by reading page upon page of SEO optimized pages anymore. I will ask an AI directly, and of late it has been a god send in terms of code and systems administration. First time right in most simple cases and queries.

otabdeveloper4 4y ago
Hope you enjoy endless product placement in your search queries. > Looks like you want to ask about how to administer your Kubernetes cluster. While I am an AI and not qualified to give advice on how to run mission-critical systems, I can heartily recommend the amazing Azure Managed Kubernetes, which is Gartner-certified for painless six-sigma reliability!
- windex 4y ago
  It isn't doing it right now.
  - jerf 4y ago
    The tech that detects that you're asking a racist question can detect you're asking about Kubernetes or orchestration in general and serve you up an ad as easily as it serves up an explanation of why you shouldn't ask racist questions. It is no different to the AI at all.
- spacephysics 4y ago
  I think this will occur with free AI based search, since it would be a similar business model to Google (if not more bias/intrusive) The alternative (which I think in todays age vs when google came out, is more readily accepted by the masses), will most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement. But to what I think your point is, the further removed one is from the original docs/content/etc, the more likely/able some middleman is to inject their own economic/political incentives, which is of concern. Especially when AI has a political bias, regardless of where it originates.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    >most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement. Have you not been paying attention? The expensive subscription based plan will ALSO have ads and product placement. These businesses just can't help themselves
    - ilikeatari 4y ago
      Yes that’s possible and probable. However I dream that it will ba a paid subscription businesses model or at least non ad driven.
    - twelve40 4y ago
      who in their right mind would give up tens of billions of ad revenue? the ads are coming no matter what.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  The big tech products might have this, but there will be competitors that don't.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    there will be non-rent-seeking competitors that will raise $11B and will have nothing to do with big tech. Got it.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      You won't need $11B to create an LLM in a couple years. Stable diffusion has created the blueprint for open source large models. Sure it might be worse in some sense than the cutting edge ad bloated products, but some people will take that tradeoff.
    - ilkke 4y ago
      Maybe nation-states? You'd just get a different kind of ads then I guess.
    - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
      Once a model is trained thats 99% of the work. Open source models or a hacker leaking a major model will be enough to compete.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        It's been 20+ years and people still pay for Photoshop instead of using GIMP. I think it's safe to say that the commercial models will continue to be a few steps ahead of the free stuff so people will continue using them.
        valine 4y ago
        Blender is the counter example. Usage of Blender far exceeds the close source alternative.
- kimburgess 4y ago
  Why imagine when you can experience the future now: https://future.attejuvonen.fi https://future.attejuvonen.fi (from a recent thread here).
Frotag 4y ago
I settled for reading the docs and searching github issues like a caveman. I wonder if this'll eventually popularize low-key advertisements in bug reports. Like "I scanned the repo using this (my company's) tool and found mixed usage of ' and ""
- rchaud 4y ago
  Keyword stuffing never dies.
- tnzk 4y ago
  I have seen this once in the issues in sveltejs/svelte (couldn't find the link though.) It had been closed by moderators fairly soon, I wonder how long it will take for the amount of this thing to surpass the capacity of voluntary efforts.
system2 4y ago
Average user doesn't know about AI. Average user is 99% of the society. We are the only ones who are doomed.
- fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
  ChatGPT is the fastest growing consumer product in history
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    At this point I don't think I could find a single person I know who doesn't know about ChatGPT, not all of them have tried it, but anyone who consumes any amount of news has heard it.
    - ldhough 4y ago
      I think almost everyone knows about it but nobody in my circle of family and friends that isn't a developer is using it beyond just playing with it after hearing about it, though I've suggested it to my mom and brother for certain tasks.
- bob1029 4y ago
  Ive observed the average user go from zero to hero on ChatGPT in about 30 minutes.
orangepurple 4y ago
The SEO out of ChatGPT is for boomers and other clueless people. The dead internet theory is true.
bagacrap 4y ago
How will the ai know the answer if it's trained on SEO (AIO?) content?
JohnFen 4y ago
> Normal web search is doomed. I hope not. The likes of ChatGPT don't do what I want a search engine to do. If normal web search is doomed, then how will I find any good new stuff on the web?
dougb5 4y ago
I think the list-of-links Web search paradigm has plenty of time left, for at least three reasons: (1) A good chunk of a typical user's needs are to do something, not to find an answer to a question; (2) Google is lightning fast compared to present-day chat interfaces; (3) "keywordese" may be an unnatural input language for search queries, but it's faster than having a dialog. I still make dozens of Google queries per day, and do maybe 1 or 2 ChatGPT sessions per week, and I'm quite aware of all the capabilities and deficits of each. I wondered why this was, until I reflected on the things I actually search for on Google (Go to https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity and filter to just show "Search"). This was a useful exercise. What percentage of your recent queries would have worked well, and more quickly, on ChatGPT? For me it was less than 1/10...
hedora 4y ago
Why do you think your ChatGPT account will produce better content than the spammers’ ChatGPT accounts?
thejackgoode 4y ago
AI assistants have the same conceptional disadvantage as "normal web search" -- they provide secondary, interpreted information, and once _any_ incentives are there to alter the interpretation, it becomes corrupt and less useful. There haven't been a thing marketers didn't find a way to ruin, you know.
DeathArrow 4y ago
>I will ask an AI directly And you will get lots of wrong answers.

by windex 4y ago

otabdeveloper4 4y ago

Hope you enjoy endless product placement in your search queries. > Looks like you want to ask about how to administer your Kubernetes cluster. While I am an AI and not qualified to give advice on how to run mission-critical systems, I can heartily recommend the amazing Azure Managed Kubernetes, which is Gartner-certified for painless six-sigma reliability!

windex 4y ago
It isn't doing it right now.
- jerf 4y ago
  The tech that detects that you're asking a racist question can detect you're asking about Kubernetes or orchestration in general and serve you up an ad as easily as it serves up an explanation of why you shouldn't ask racist questions. It is no different to the AI at all.
spacephysics 4y ago
I think this will occur with free AI based search, since it would be a similar business model to Google (if not more bias/intrusive) The alternative (which I think in todays age vs when google came out, is more readily accepted by the masses), will most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement. But to what I think your point is, the further removed one is from the original docs/content/etc, the more likely/able some middleman is to inject their own economic/political incentives, which is of concern. Especially when AI has a political bias, regardless of where it originates.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  >most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement. Have you not been paying attention? The expensive subscription based plan will ALSO have ads and product placement. These businesses just can't help themselves
  - ilikeatari 4y ago
    Yes that’s possible and probable. However I dream that it will ba a paid subscription businesses model or at least non ad driven.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    who in their right mind would give up tens of billions of ad revenue? the ads are coming no matter what.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
The big tech products might have this, but there will be competitors that don't.
- twelve40 4y ago
  there will be non-rent-seeking competitors that will raise $11B and will have nothing to do with big tech. Got it.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    You won't need $11B to create an LLM in a couple years. Stable diffusion has created the blueprint for open source large models. Sure it might be worse in some sense than the cutting edge ad bloated products, but some people will take that tradeoff.
  - ilkke 4y ago
    Maybe nation-states? You'd just get a different kind of ads then I guess.
  - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
    Once a model is trained thats 99% of the work. Open source models or a hacker leaking a major model will be enough to compete.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      It's been 20+ years and people still pay for Photoshop instead of using GIMP. I think it's safe to say that the commercial models will continue to be a few steps ahead of the free stuff so people will continue using them.
      - valine 4y ago
        Blender is the counter example. Usage of Blender far exceeds the close source alternative.
kimburgess 4y ago
Why imagine when you can experience the future now: https://future.attejuvonen.fi https://future.attejuvonen.fi (from a recent thread here).

Frotag 4y ago

I settled for reading the docs and searching github issues like a caveman. I wonder if this'll eventually popularize low-key advertisements in bug reports. Like "I scanned the repo using this (my company's) tool and found mixed usage of ' and ""

rchaud 4y ago
Keyword stuffing never dies.
tnzk 4y ago
I have seen this once in the issues in sveltejs/svelte (couldn't find the link though.) It had been closed by moderators fairly soon, I wonder how long it will take for the amount of this thing to surpass the capacity of voluntary efforts.

system2 4y ago

Average user doesn't know about AI. Average user is 99% of the society. We are the only ones who are doomed.

fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
ChatGPT is the fastest growing consumer product in history
- Gigachad 4y ago
  At this point I don't think I could find a single person I know who doesn't know about ChatGPT, not all of them have tried it, but anyone who consumes any amount of news has heard it.
  - ldhough 4y ago
    I think almost everyone knows about it but nobody in my circle of family and friends that isn't a developer is using it beyond just playing with it after hearing about it, though I've suggested it to my mom and brother for certain tasks.
bob1029 4y ago
Ive observed the average user go from zero to hero on ChatGPT in about 30 minutes.

orangepurple 4y ago

The SEO out of ChatGPT is for boomers and other clueless people. The dead internet theory is true.

bagacrap 4y ago

How will the ai know the answer if it's trained on SEO (AIO?) content?

JohnFen 4y ago

> Normal web search is doomed. I hope not. The likes of ChatGPT don't do what I want a search engine to do. If normal web search is doomed, then how will I find any good new stuff on the web?

dougb5 4y ago

I think the list-of-links Web search paradigm has plenty of time left, for at least three reasons: (1) A good chunk of a typical user's needs are to do something, not to find an answer to a question; (2) Google is lightning fast compared to present-day chat interfaces; (3) "keywordese" may be an unnatural input language for search queries, but it's faster than having a dialog. I still make dozens of Google queries per day, and do maybe 1 or 2 ChatGPT sessions per week, and I'm quite aware of all the capabilities and deficits of each. I wondered why this was, until I reflected on the things I actually search for on Google (Go to https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity and filter to just show "Search"). This was a useful exercise. What percentage of your recent queries would have worked well, and more quickly, on ChatGPT? For me it was less than 1/10...

hedora 4y ago

Why do you think your ChatGPT account will produce better content than the spammers’ ChatGPT accounts?

thejackgoode 4y ago

AI assistants have the same conceptional disadvantage as "normal web search" -- they provide secondary, interpreted information, and once _any_ incentives are there to alter the interpretation, it becomes corrupt and less useful. There haven't been a thing marketers didn't find a way to ruin, you know.

DeathArrow 4y ago

>I will ask an AI directly And you will get lots of wrong answers.