4 ms·

Why did you identify him as your black friend? Instead of your friend? The quote isn’t even about race.

yieldcrv 4y ago
I think its because its much more likely that the friend is a reluctant beneficiary of signaling, not part of the powers that be I don't have any opinion on whether it made it meaningful to add race there, that way
- hprotagonist 4y ago
  his point is that such signaling is annoying on its face (it’s smarmy and patronizing) and also annoying because it doesn’t benefit him: especially compared to, say, competitive job offers, recruitment efforts at HBCs, etc. Actions that aren’t primarily focused on “showing”, but are concerned more with “doing”.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    HBCUs yes, agreed
naasking 4y ago
If it meant breaking the status quo on more meaningful quality of life metrics, like being able to get better jobs or better mortgages, I'm not sure the answer is so obvious.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  It doesn’t. The NY Times put a moratorium on anti-Asian aggression by Black Americans during the early days of COVID. Yet they made an exception for a White on Asian, but all that did was mask the actual problem in society. Growing up as an immigrant, the racism in non-White American circles is also very real but never spoken of.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Consequences of punching down may be different than punching up. Even if the ideal is no one throwing punches.
    - nobodyandproud 4y ago
      Would you care to elaborate on what you mean here?
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Whites are a majority. So aggression from them toward a minority like Asians would be "punching down". Immigrants are typically a minority, so if they were discriminating or being aggressive towards the majority then it'd be considered "punching up".
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        So what about black american on immigrant discrimination?
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Regular punching I suppose. Regardless all punching is bad. It's just that there is some nuance in how it's dealt with. Much like big kids punching much smaller kids (and vice versa) on the playground.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        This reduces to making discrimination and prejudice acceptable for certain groups. A better analogy would be the smaller kid finding yet another, even smaller kid to beat down. Then avoiding any mention of the smaller bully, because they were being bullied by someone larger. Nothing positive or nuanced about this position.
  - deleted 4y ago
stephen_g 4y ago
The "status quo" is racial discrimination, which the person who said that is presumably subject to. The idea is that the word lists make people feel like they're helping, when those people aren't actually doing anything to fix actual problems and actually keep the system going.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  I see lists like https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/stanfordlanguage.pdf https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/stanfordlanguag... as ridiculous. Tarball? “abusive relationship”? “war room”? This is way beyond the obvious racial discrimination and micro agressions. What are my kids going to deal with when they get into Uni?

I think its because its much more likely that the friend is a reluctant beneficiary of signaling, not part of the powers that be I don't have any opinion on whether it made it meaningful to add race there, that way

hprotagonist 4y ago
his point is that such signaling is annoying on its face (it’s smarmy and patronizing) and also annoying because it doesn’t benefit him: especially compared to, say, competitive job offers, recruitment efforts at HBCs, etc. Actions that aren’t primarily focused on “showing”, but are concerned more with “doing”.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  HBCUs yes, agreed

naasking 4y ago

If it meant breaking the status quo on more meaningful quality of life metrics, like being able to get better jobs or better mortgages, I'm not sure the answer is so obvious.

nobodyandproud 4y ago
It doesn’t. The NY Times put a moratorium on anti-Asian aggression by Black Americans during the early days of COVID. Yet they made an exception for a White on Asian, but all that did was mask the actual problem in society. Growing up as an immigrant, the racism in non-White American circles is also very real but never spoken of.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Consequences of punching down may be different than punching up. Even if the ideal is no one throwing punches.
  - nobodyandproud 4y ago
    Would you care to elaborate on what you mean here?
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Whites are a majority. So aggression from them toward a minority like Asians would be "punching down". Immigrants are typically a minority, so if they were discriminating or being aggressive towards the majority then it'd be considered "punching up".
      - nobodyandproud 4y ago
        So what about black american on immigrant discrimination?
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Regular punching I suppose. Regardless all punching is bad. It's just that there is some nuance in how it's dealt with. Much like big kids punching much smaller kids (and vice versa) on the playground.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        This reduces to making discrimination and prejudice acceptable for certain groups. A better analogy would be the smaller kid finding yet another, even smaller kid to beat down. Then avoiding any mention of the smaller bully, because they were being bullied by someone larger. Nothing positive or nuanced about this position.
- deleted 4y ago

stephen_g 4y ago

The "status quo" is racial discrimination, which the person who said that is presumably subject to. The idea is that the word lists make people feel like they're helping, when those people aren't actually doing anything to fix actual problems and actually keep the system going.

nobodyandproud 4y ago
I see lists like https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/stanfordlanguage.pdf https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/stanfordlanguag... as ridiculous. Tarball? “abusive relationship”? “war room”? This is way beyond the obvious racial discrimination and micro agressions. What are my kids going to deal with when they get into Uni?