6 ms·

I am hoping that we improve cities and towns so most people simply don't need to own a car. A cargo bike and the odd car-hire (like car2go) could replace car ow

I am hoping that we improve cities and towns so most people simply don't need to own a car. A cargo bike and the odd car-hire (like car2go) could replace car ownership for a lot of people, and make cities more pleasant.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Let's say that some bigger cities will be able to achieve this, what about the rest of settlements?
- guhidalg 4y ago
  They'll disappear. That's life, extinction comes for everyone someday.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    I'll prefer for big confining cities to disappear sooner.
- martin_a 4y ago
  Smaller settlements profit from less demand for cars. That will stabilize prices for cars and petrol and everything around that.
- Tiktaalik 4y ago
  Smaller towns existed before cars! Consider Vancouver Island for example, a number of small towns on the east coast of the island anchored by larger cities of Nanaimo and Victoria. They were connected together by a railroad. As the age of cars took over the railroad tracks went into disrepair and were abandoned. We have a 19th century technology sitting right there to fix this problem. The only thing lacking is political will.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    Time to bring out the horse. Yee haw.
kybernetyk 4y ago
This. I hope this, too. Mainly because I’d love empty streets when driving my car. You can go full out cargo bike. I keep my truck. (Sadly most people think this way - the cargo bike dreamers are just a small but vocal minority).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- soheil 4y ago
  Almost like a cargo cult
soheil 4y ago
I hope not, this seems like a nightmare scenario. Giving away the conveniences of cars is not something most people desire. People advocating for bikes have this sense of moral superiority, think people shouldn't want too many nice things anyway and believe protecting their version of the common good is definitely worth some martyrs.
- nforgerit 4y ago
  They might also be just people who are fed up with cars filling up the streets taking precious space in cities and be a life-threatening issue when you're cycling around. But hey, "moral superiority" is easier to say.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    I cycle in Toronto nearly every day. Often downtown / midtown area. Do not see much real danger. Sure shit happens but that's life.
  - jbm 4y ago
    I don't find the safety canard to be very convincing. You can turn it against cyclists fairly easily. I've seen reports of cyclists who murder pedestrians through hit and runs. Sure this is rare, but we need to make sure the elderly are "safe" from belligerent cyclists and their poisonous online culture. As such, it might be necessary for us all to walk, at least until we can develop practical systems to regulate speeds on bikes and ensure that the roads are not mad max style kill zone. I suggest a top bike speed limit of 10-12 km to ensure safe streets, with powerful automated brakes that prevent accidental pedestrian hits. It might flip the cyclist over xer handlebars but I'm sick of socializing risks and privatizing benefits; if you are in a rush, you should have left earlier. Why settle for anything less than safety for decent society? Incidentally, I agree with reducing polluting cars for pollution reduction measures. Sadly that means I don't care once we move to electric cars. You'll find most people are in that boat.
    - fineIllregister 4y ago
magic_hamster 4y ago
While I hope you're right, I think this is possibly not something we'll see in our lifetime. To completely give up your car you'd have to put in place systems that allow you to function without it in all aspects of life. From suburban planning to doing your shopping. The amount of work needed is staggering. It took us a long time to see the damage of car culture, and it will take decades, if not longer, to change it.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  Yes, and the US is a lost cause at this point, but other places might be able to manage it. I'm not actually saying that people shouldn't ever be able to drive, just that it should be reasonable for people to need cars rarely and be able to rent them for those occasions where they do.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Depends where you live. USA, given what I've seen in the four months total I've been there? Perhaps as you say, though allowing one home on a street to be converted into a convenience store[0], would make a big difference even there. But here in Berlin, I already have such a city: a 15 minute walk gives me a railway station, 22 stops for the metro and the bus, at least a dozen sit down restaurants and cafes, 17 supermarkets plus IDK how many corner shops, and both a construction store and a large home electronics store. Try to do that today in Davis CA, and the closest you can manage is about half that and even then you're limited to one of Aggie Village, Old East, Old North, or on top of one of the shops or restaurants. Most of it has roads too wide to be a safe pedestrian option — I tried, I didn't feel safe, and it was relatively good compared to the other places I visited in the US! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    > But here in Berlin, I already have such a city How many people more can we fit in such Berlin?
    - 4y ago
gregors 4y ago
I LOVE the idea of going car free. But in the US, it might be a lost cause. Definitely not going to happen in my lifetime. It's so poorly managed. It's really a shame. When I travel to Germany and experience what is possible it makes it even more depressing. I can't even get to my local park without risking my life - no sidewalks and I live within a mile.
- fineIllregister 4y ago
  The good news is that it's not all or nothing. There are places people live in the US today without car (I've done it myself). Improving and expanding those areas, as well as creating new car-free zones, is achievable.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

Let's say that some bigger cities will be able to achieve this, what about the rest of settlements?

guhidalg 4y ago
They'll disappear. That's life, extinction comes for everyone someday.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I'll prefer for big confining cities to disappear sooner.
martin_a 4y ago
Smaller settlements profit from less demand for cars. That will stabilize prices for cars and petrol and everything around that.
Tiktaalik 4y ago
Smaller towns existed before cars! Consider Vancouver Island for example, a number of small towns on the east coast of the island anchored by larger cities of Nanaimo and Victoria. They were connected together by a railroad. As the age of cars took over the railroad tracks went into disrepair and were abandoned. We have a 19th century technology sitting right there to fix this problem. The only thing lacking is political will.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Time to bring out the horse. Yee haw.

kybernetyk 4y ago

This. I hope this, too. Mainly because I’d love empty streets when driving my car. You can go full out cargo bike. I keep my truck. (Sadly most people think this way - the cargo bike dreamers are just a small but vocal minority).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
soheil 4y ago
Almost like a cargo cult

soheil 4y ago

I hope not, this seems like a nightmare scenario. Giving away the conveniences of cars is not something most people desire. People advocating for bikes have this sense of moral superiority, think people shouldn't want too many nice things anyway and believe protecting their version of the common good is definitely worth some martyrs.

nforgerit 4y ago
They might also be just people who are fed up with cars filling up the streets taking precious space in cities and be a life-threatening issue when you're cycling around. But hey, "moral superiority" is easier to say.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I cycle in Toronto nearly every day. Often downtown / midtown area. Do not see much real danger. Sure shit happens but that's life.
- jbm 4y ago
  I don't find the safety canard to be very convincing. You can turn it against cyclists fairly easily. I've seen reports of cyclists who murder pedestrians through hit and runs. Sure this is rare, but we need to make sure the elderly are "safe" from belligerent cyclists and their poisonous online culture. As such, it might be necessary for us all to walk, at least until we can develop practical systems to regulate speeds on bikes and ensure that the roads are not mad max style kill zone. I suggest a top bike speed limit of 10-12 km to ensure safe streets, with powerful automated brakes that prevent accidental pedestrian hits. It might flip the cyclist over xer handlebars but I'm sick of socializing risks and privatizing benefits; if you are in a rush, you should have left earlier. Why settle for anything less than safety for decent society? Incidentally, I agree with reducing polluting cars for pollution reduction measures. Sadly that means I don't care once we move to electric cars. You'll find most people are in that boat.
  - fineIllregister 4y ago

magic_hamster 4y ago

While I hope you're right, I think this is possibly not something we'll see in our lifetime. To completely give up your car you'd have to put in place systems that allow you to function without it in all aspects of life. From suburban planning to doing your shopping. The amount of work needed is staggering. It took us a long time to see the damage of car culture, and it will take decades, if not longer, to change it.

CalRobert 4y ago
Yes, and the US is a lost cause at this point, but other places might be able to manage it. I'm not actually saying that people shouldn't ever be able to drive, just that it should be reasonable for people to need cars rarely and be able to rent them for those occasions where they do.
ben_w 4y ago
Depends where you live. USA, given what I've seen in the four months total I've been there? Perhaps as you say, though allowing one home on a street to be converted into a convenience store[0], would make a big difference even there. But here in Berlin, I already have such a city: a 15 minute walk gives me a railway station, 22 stops for the metro and the bus, at least a dozen sit down restaurants and cafes, 17 supermarkets plus IDK how many corner shops, and both a construction store and a large home electronics store. Try to do that today in Davis CA, and the closest you can manage is about half that and even then you're limited to one of Aggie Village, Old East, Old North, or on top of one of the shops or restaurants. Most of it has roads too wide to be a safe pedestrian option — I tried, I didn't feel safe, and it was relatively good compared to the other places I visited in the US! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  > But here in Berlin, I already have such a city How many people more can we fit in such Berlin?
  - 4y ago

gregors 4y ago

I LOVE the idea of going car free. But in the US, it might be a lost cause. Definitely not going to happen in my lifetime. It's so poorly managed. It's really a shame. When I travel to Germany and experience what is possible it makes it even more depressing. I can't even get to my local park without risking my life - no sidewalks and I live within a mile.

fineIllregister 4y ago
The good news is that it's not all or nothing. There are places people live in the US today without car (I've done it myself). Improving and expanding those areas, as well as creating new car-free zones, is achievable.