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What I can't understand about Elon's approach is how easy it would be to do nothing. Like he could easily just ignore these tweets and not have a massive public

What I can't understand about Elon's approach is how easy it would be to do nothing. Like he could easily just ignore these tweets and not have a massive public thread where he gets eviscerated. I can appreciate that there are a large number of people who will come to a billionaires defence, for whatever reason but surely it would be easier to just send the tweet to HR with a "?".

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Waterluvian 4y ago
Kind of the definition of a personality disorder. To reasonably well-adjusted people it seems perplexing. Elon isn’t in the driver’s seat for his own impulses.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Yes the self defeating actions seem to be a loss of agency because he is so deliberate otherwise in marketing and his words are marketing for his businesses like it or not. His petulant sociopathic fans make it even harder to like Elon or buy his products because I feel the need to silently counter these assholes from having their supply. He seems to have cultivated a following of uncaring cynical dick heads.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    I wonder if people like these types because they validate their own shortcomings. How can you feel shame about your impulse towards being a horrible bigot when the President of the free world or a multi-billionaire is just like you!
neaden 4y ago
It's because he is a bully and enjoys feeling powerful by being snarky to someone less powerful to him and then having a bunch of people compliment him for doing it. Like I wish that wasn't the reason and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile but it's pretty clear at this point it's just because he likes to do it.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  And no one can put him in his place as we have a society that lets a singular asshole take over industry (space) or institution (Tesla, Twitter) and make it their personal play thing. It’s obvious to everyone now that these companies are strategically well positioned and succeed despite Elon’s social shortcomings which validates all of him. There is no means to say well you were an exceptional capitalist but also a dick head who made people feel like shit, so we are taking back the investments made.
  - mistermann 4y ago
    If we are displeased with the society we have built (and most everyone seems to be, in one way or another), we are welcome to change it. The laws of physics do not stand in our way.
- NikkiA 4y ago
  His attitude can be summed up as: He was massively bullied as a child, now it's his turn!
  - iguana_lawyer 4y ago
    Funny how the people he chooses to bully are almost always the traditional enemies of fascists: the disabled, trans people, racial minorities, political dissidents, etc.
    - guax 4y ago
      The dream of the oppressed is to be the opressor. Not to break the cycle, nor retribution.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > He was massively bullied as a child He was not.
    - NikkiA 4y ago
boh 4y ago
Elon Musk is proficient in perpetuating his own relevance. These arguments, and how people respond to them, are irrelevant by themselves but the outrage or counter-outrage they produce has a multiplier effect of media attention. This is publicity on the cheap (for both parties involved).
ezekg 4y ago
The thing is that these types of tweets bring people to Twitter. They want to read the drama, and maybe even get their 2 cents in. Trump did it and Twitter boomed, now Elon is doing it and Twitter is (allegedly!) growing. Twitter loves drama. Well, people love easily digestible drama. And that's why I personally dislike Twitter as a social media.
- ncr100 4y ago
  What is wrong about loving drama? The drama is okay in and of itself. Isn't it? What's like really the problem with this particular drama, @ezekg? I do see that Trump redirected hate from his followers onto targets. Is that what is going to happen here? Is that the unsupportive toxic aspect of this type of social media?
  - ezekg 4y ago
    I never stated there was anything wrong about loving drama. I said I don't love drama.
    - ncr100 4y ago
      Thank you. I didn't read what you wrote carefully enough. Sorry to waste your time. Thanks again for clarifying.
mistermann 4y ago
One might say the same about any suboptimal human action. Even looking back at my own in-game performance yesterday, I can easily assemble a long "wtf were you thinking!!!???" list. I'm honestly starting to wonder if we humans might be more imperfect than we let on. Stranger things have happened before! Now...on to read some stories.
- twixfel 4y ago
  That's not true, there's such a thing as forced an unforced errors. What you're saying would suggest all errors are fundamentally alike, only differing in severity, but this is of course not the case. I don't know of anyone who thinks in that way about people's behaviour. Your dismissiveness is woefully misplaced.
  - mistermann 4y ago
    > That's not true, there's such a thing as forced and unforced errors. That's weird, because what's this? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unforced_error https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unforced_error https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unforced-error https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unfor... https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unforced%20error https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unforced%20e... OOPSADAISY: oh, how sweet is the irony...you said "there's" not "there's not" - I will just leave this up as further demonstration of my point, and some humble pie! > What you're saying would suggest all errors are fundamentally alike, only differing in severity You are working at the concrete level, I am speaking at higher levels of abstraction. Note that what is said and what is received are often not the same - sometimes, it is even the opposite! > ...but this is of course not the case. The word "is" is very slippery/sneaky - watch out! > I don't know of anyone who thinks in that way about people's behaviour. Perhaps you do not know everyone - or, of those people you do know, you may not have comprehensive knowledge of their cognitive styles and capabilities. > Your dismissiveness is woefully misplaced. Your attitude is being noted, Mr Rivers. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bed10ee3-765d-4985-89e0-4fa474258018 https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bed10ee3-765d-4985-89e0-4fa4742... Now, back to all of the interesting stories in this thread...
Veen 4y ago
You have wonder what goes on in Musk's head. He lays off a guy with a fairly large Twitter following, who is quite wealthy, having founded a company that sold to Twitter, and is a well-known philanthropist in his own country, who also happens to have muscular dystrophy. The guy politely tries to get his attention to find out whether he still has a job. And Musk's response is to interrogate him publicly, mock him, and accuse him of using his disability as an excuse to avoid work. It's cretinous in so many different ways it's hard to see how the stupidest person would think it a sensible course of action.
- jccalhoun 4y ago
  It is what I have come to expect from the guy that called one of the people helping rescue the kids in the cave in Thailand a "pedo guy," told a Buzzfeed reporter that the reporter was "defending child rapists" when asked about the comment, hired an investigator to find proof, and then convinced a court that he was just kidding about it when he was sued. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-16/elon-musk-hired-detective-pedo-guy-tweet https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-16/elon-musk-... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50695593 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50695593
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    And got away with it, sadly. He has now been to court several times and demonstrated that he can say ANYTHING, and face no consequences legally, and a large pool of sycophants will support every word, no matter how awful.
    - rsynnott 4y ago
      I mean, define "got away with it". He pretty comprehensively destroyed his own reputation; before that, the absolutely standard public opinion, and really the opinion of anyone who hadn't scrutinised him in detail, was that he was a magical super-genius. Afterwards, not so much. Particularly post-Twitter, the problem has gotten _clearer_ to the public, but that was his first really public obvious "by the way, have I mentioned that I'm completely awful?" thing.
xyzelement 4y ago
Quick thoughts - I agree with you that most people (myself included) cannot relate to how Musk thinks. Humbly, when I don't understand where Musk comes from on something, I don't assume that the disconnect is due to superior intelligence on my part[0] (but weirdly, plenty of people with objectively little accomplishment have no problem assuming that they are seeing something Musk is blind to) So, everything that follows is conjecture for the sake of a probabilistic answer to your question. I suspect Musk is "allergic" to the type of work/worker this person seems to do. The person's self-cited list of accomplishments doesn't actually list a single impactful accomplishment, which isn't acceptable for someone senior enough to not do any hands-on work. Now, again, this is a guess, but I suspect that this type of "allergy" is a big component of Musk's success in general in how he works and who he hires for his companies. It likely serves his very well. As a "side effect" of that allergy, it probably compels him to toe/cross the line in cases like this. If you believe in something deeply, you speak to it even at your own risk. Again, not saying that's what I would do, but I am also not the guy who runs Tesla and all these other companies, so if you have a choice between what I'd do, and what Musk would do, do what he would do! [0] It's very popular to say he's a hype man who just rides the wave of provocative tweets. But... have people who say that ever seen, drove, ride in a Tesla? Those are real. Maybe people can't comprehend the amount of stuff you gotta get right to make and sell a car, if they did they would keep that totally distinct from the "hype" category. And aren't those ships going to space etc? It's a weird flex to claim that Musk doesn't get really important, difficult things done - and if you accept that he does, then it's weird to claim "but I don't understand how he works, so I assume he's the idiot"
- frankreyes 4y ago
  Yes. I've met a bunch of MBAs who hate Musk. What did they accomplish in their professional career? They don't even run their own business, let alone a multi billion dollar disruption. They did the MBA to get a promotion at their blue collar jobs.
davidguetta 4y ago
Because he believes victim mentality is an actual societal problem that needs some people to stand up to. What was the former employee expecting anyway ? Why someone suposedly as "talented" and wealthy as is is would ask and spill all of this publicly ? It's pure attention seeking
- jkubicek 4y ago
  If you're about to sue your former employer for breach of contract (because of the acquisition) and wrongful termination (because he was fired for being disabled) it's nice to have the CEO admit all of this stuff in public.
  - davidguetta 4y ago
    Its a good point but i dont think he planned it that much tho People can downvote but im 100% sure thats what elons think^^
    - guax 4y ago
      I think you're being downvoted because is ambiguous whether you're in agreement of that statement or not.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- pwinnski 4y ago
  He was probably expecting that his employer would follow employment law, rather than this nonsense.
eric_cc 4y ago
> I can appreciate that there are a large number of people who will come to a billionaires defence In this context, does it matter what his net worth is? Are you implying it’s not possible that people defend him for his positions alone? Both him and Halli come off bad in this exchange, in my opinion. Not sure why money is a deciding factor to you.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Waterluvian 4y ago

Kind of the definition of a personality disorder. To reasonably well-adjusted people it seems perplexing. Elon isn’t in the driver’s seat for his own impulses.

birdyrooster 4y ago
Yes the self defeating actions seem to be a loss of agency because he is so deliberate otherwise in marketing and his words are marketing for his businesses like it or not. His petulant sociopathic fans make it even harder to like Elon or buy his products because I feel the need to silently counter these assholes from having their supply. He seems to have cultivated a following of uncaring cynical dick heads.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  I wonder if people like these types because they validate their own shortcomings. How can you feel shame about your impulse towards being a horrible bigot when the President of the free world or a multi-billionaire is just like you!

neaden 4y ago

It's because he is a bully and enjoys feeling powerful by being snarky to someone less powerful to him and then having a bunch of people compliment him for doing it. Like I wish that wasn't the reason and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile but it's pretty clear at this point it's just because he likes to do it.

birdyrooster 4y ago
And no one can put him in his place as we have a society that lets a singular asshole take over industry (space) or institution (Tesla, Twitter) and make it their personal play thing. It’s obvious to everyone now that these companies are strategically well positioned and succeed despite Elon’s social shortcomings which validates all of him. There is no means to say well you were an exceptional capitalist but also a dick head who made people feel like shit, so we are taking back the investments made.
- mistermann 4y ago
  If we are displeased with the society we have built (and most everyone seems to be, in one way or another), we are welcome to change it. The laws of physics do not stand in our way.
NikkiA 4y ago
His attitude can be summed up as: He was massively bullied as a child, now it's his turn!
- iguana_lawyer 4y ago
  Funny how the people he chooses to bully are almost always the traditional enemies of fascists: the disabled, trans people, racial minorities, political dissidents, etc.
  - guax 4y ago
    The dream of the oppressed is to be the opressor. Not to break the cycle, nor retribution.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > He was massively bullied as a child He was not.
  - NikkiA 4y ago

boh 4y ago

Elon Musk is proficient in perpetuating his own relevance. These arguments, and how people respond to them, are irrelevant by themselves but the outrage or counter-outrage they produce has a multiplier effect of media attention. This is publicity on the cheap (for both parties involved).

ezekg 4y ago

The thing is that these types of tweets bring people to Twitter. They want to read the drama, and maybe even get their 2 cents in. Trump did it and Twitter boomed, now Elon is doing it and Twitter is (allegedly!) growing. Twitter loves drama. Well, people love easily digestible drama. And that's why I personally dislike Twitter as a social media.

ncr100 4y ago
What is wrong about loving drama? The drama is okay in and of itself. Isn't it? What's like really the problem with this particular drama, @ezekg? I do see that Trump redirected hate from his followers onto targets. Is that what is going to happen here? Is that the unsupportive toxic aspect of this type of social media?
- ezekg 4y ago
  I never stated there was anything wrong about loving drama. I said I don't love drama.
  - ncr100 4y ago
    Thank you. I didn't read what you wrote carefully enough. Sorry to waste your time. Thanks again for clarifying.

mistermann 4y ago

One might say the same about any suboptimal human action. Even looking back at my own in-game performance yesterday, I can easily assemble a long "wtf were you thinking!!!???" list. I'm honestly starting to wonder if we humans might be more imperfect than we let on. Stranger things have happened before! Now...on to read some stories.

twixfel 4y ago
That's not true, there's such a thing as forced an unforced errors. What you're saying would suggest all errors are fundamentally alike, only differing in severity, but this is of course not the case. I don't know of anyone who thinks in that way about people's behaviour. Your dismissiveness is woefully misplaced.
- mistermann 4y ago
  > That's not true, there's such a thing as forced and unforced errors. That's weird, because what's this? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unforced_error https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unforced_error https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unforced-error https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/unfor... https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unforced%20error https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unforced%20e... OOPSADAISY: oh, how sweet is the irony...you said "there's" not "there's not" - I will just leave this up as further demonstration of my point, and some humble pie! > What you're saying would suggest all errors are fundamentally alike, only differing in severity You are working at the concrete level, I am speaking at higher levels of abstraction. Note that what is said and what is received are often not the same - sometimes, it is even the opposite! > ...but this is of course not the case. The word "is" is very slippery/sneaky - watch out! > I don't know of anyone who thinks in that way about people's behaviour. Perhaps you do not know everyone - or, of those people you do know, you may not have comprehensive knowledge of their cognitive styles and capabilities. > Your dismissiveness is woefully misplaced. Your attitude is being noted, Mr Rivers. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bed10ee3-765d-4985-89e0-4fa474258018 https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bed10ee3-765d-4985-89e0-4fa4742... Now, back to all of the interesting stories in this thread...

Veen 4y ago

You have wonder what goes on in Musk's head. He lays off a guy with a fairly large Twitter following, who is quite wealthy, having founded a company that sold to Twitter, and is a well-known philanthropist in his own country, who also happens to have muscular dystrophy. The guy politely tries to get his attention to find out whether he still has a job. And Musk's response is to interrogate him publicly, mock him, and accuse him of using his disability as an excuse to avoid work. It's cretinous in so many different ways it's hard to see how the stupidest person would think it a sensible course of action.

jccalhoun 4y ago
It is what I have come to expect from the guy that called one of the people helping rescue the kids in the cave in Thailand a "pedo guy," told a Buzzfeed reporter that the reporter was "defending child rapists" when asked about the comment, hired an investigator to find proof, and then convinced a court that he was just kidding about it when he was sued. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-16/elon-musk-hired-detective-pedo-guy-tweet https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-16/elon-musk-... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50695593 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50695593
- pwinnski 4y ago
  And got away with it, sadly. He has now been to court several times and demonstrated that he can say ANYTHING, and face no consequences legally, and a large pool of sycophants will support every word, no matter how awful.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    I mean, define "got away with it". He pretty comprehensively destroyed his own reputation; before that, the absolutely standard public opinion, and really the opinion of anyone who hadn't scrutinised him in detail, was that he was a magical super-genius. Afterwards, not so much. Particularly post-Twitter, the problem has gotten _clearer_ to the public, but that was his first really public obvious "by the way, have I mentioned that I'm completely awful?" thing.

xyzelement 4y ago

Quick thoughts - I agree with you that most people (myself included) cannot relate to how Musk thinks. Humbly, when I don't understand where Musk comes from on something, I don't assume that the disconnect is due to superior intelligence on my part[0] (but weirdly, plenty of people with objectively little accomplishment have no problem assuming that they are seeing something Musk is blind to) So, everything that follows is conjecture for the sake of a probabilistic answer to your question. I suspect Musk is "allergic" to the type of work/worker this person seems to do. The person's self-cited list of accomplishments doesn't actually list a single impactful accomplishment, which isn't acceptable for someone senior enough to not do any hands-on work. Now, again, this is a guess, but I suspect that this type of "allergy" is a big component of Musk's success in general in how he works and who he hires for his companies. It likely serves his very well. As a "side effect" of that allergy, it probably compels him to toe/cross the line in cases like this. If you believe in something deeply, you speak to it even at your own risk. Again, not saying that's what I would do, but I am also not the guy who runs Tesla and all these other companies, so if you have a choice between what I'd do, and what Musk would do, do what he would do! [0] It's very popular to say he's a hype man who just rides the wave of provocative tweets. But... have people who say that ever seen, drove, ride in a Tesla? Those are real. Maybe people can't comprehend the amount of stuff you gotta get right to make and sell a car, if they did they would keep that totally distinct from the "hype" category. And aren't those ships going to space etc? It's a weird flex to claim that Musk doesn't get really important, difficult things done - and if you accept that he does, then it's weird to claim "but I don't understand how he works, so I assume he's the idiot"

frankreyes 4y ago
Yes. I've met a bunch of MBAs who hate Musk. What did they accomplish in their professional career? They don't even run their own business, let alone a multi billion dollar disruption. They did the MBA to get a promotion at their blue collar jobs.

davidguetta 4y ago

Because he believes victim mentality is an actual societal problem that needs some people to stand up to. What was the former employee expecting anyway ? Why someone suposedly as "talented" and wealthy as is is would ask and spill all of this publicly ? It's pure attention seeking

jkubicek 4y ago
If you're about to sue your former employer for breach of contract (because of the acquisition) and wrongful termination (because he was fired for being disabled) it's nice to have the CEO admit all of this stuff in public.
- davidguetta 4y ago
  Its a good point but i dont think he planned it that much tho People can downvote but im 100% sure thats what elons think^^
  - guax 4y ago
    I think you're being downvoted because is ambiguous whether you're in agreement of that statement or not.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
pwinnski 4y ago
He was probably expecting that his employer would follow employment law, rather than this nonsense.

eric_cc 4y ago

> I can appreciate that there are a large number of people who will come to a billionaires defence In this context, does it matter what his net worth is? Are you implying it’s not possible that people defend him for his positions alone? Both him and Halli come off bad in this exchange, in my opinion. Not sure why money is a deciding factor to you.