6 ms·

Inconvenient EU piracy study kept hidden for years (2017)

98 points by tanelpoder 4y ago

fxtentacle 4y ago
TLDR the EU found that privacy will maybe reduce top movies earnings by 5%. Also, 80% of respondents find TV streaming prices too expensive in comparison to the content offered.
- throwaway8689 4y ago
  We can all debate the quality of Netflix or Prime but the cost is about the same as renting a VHS tape from Blockbuster once a week 20 years ago. Not even adjusting for inflation.
  - unixgoddess 4y ago
    a big difference is that you could find vhs and dvds in public libraries, whereas the library model breaks apart for streamed media.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      My library does actually have streaming movies and TV. But the comparison of what they have available to stream vs take out physically on DVD and Blu-ray just highlights how messed up it is. You will struggle to find a movie you've heard from the past 10 years, you will struggle to find a good movie from the past 30. Meanwhile the physical library has recent new releases and stuff you've actually heard of and want to watch.
      - throwaway8689 4y ago
        Agree. I'd go to Blockbuster for block busters and the library or an independent video rental store for art house and foreign language films.
- krfsm 4y ago
  Note that in 2013 there weren't many streaming services available in the polled countries. Netflix first appeared in UK and Sweden by 2012, and was probably not available at all in the other polled countries. So it's more likely that TV show prices refer to cable TV, not streaming.
- rspoerri 4y ago
  i think you meant to write piracy not privacy
moremetadata 4y ago
Although technically, its not piracy, I cant see why anyone would want to stream a movie or subscription series to their phone and watch it. I think this study highlights some people watch any poor quality movie in order to take part in conversations with their peers. I'd rather go without because the CGI is detracting from the experience and the story lines are all variations of others.
kramerger 4y ago
With streaming services increasing their prices significantly and the hunt on password sharing, I think if this study is repeated 3 years from now the results will look very different. I canceled 2 subscriptions and switched down one tier on another subscription last month. I bet the clueless execs will blame it on piracy...
isubasinghe 4y ago
This doesn't surprise me, I pirate stuff because I am bored and want something to watch. The price tag to buy movies at $20 or so dollars is just too much. I did have a patch of piracy free media when Netflix was had everything I wanted to watch, now Netflix cancels nearly every show I get excited about after one season. In addition to this there are like 5 or 6 providers now, paying $20 or so per provider for 4k streaming is just too costly.
- Avamander 4y ago
  Not only too costly, but seriously unfair. Median salaries differ up to five times on the same continent, bit less inside the EU, yet prices aren't adjusted for that. People often pay times as much adjusted and also get less content, simply inane.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    I see significant different prices for Netflix in different countries, such as Denmark and Bulgaria. My own reason not to subscribe is the language for subtitles etc. Netflix in Denmark often lacks English subtitles. This isn't very good, when 4% of EU citizens live in a country they weren't born in.
frankreyes 4y ago
You wouldn't download a car.
- lemoncookiechip 4y ago
  I would totally download a real car to 3D print, lol.
- theodric 4y ago
  Watch me
- bigger_inside 4y ago
  those 15 year old talking points from "the more you know"-talking points financed by transnational entertainment exploiters just won't die, will they?
IYasha 4y ago
> A piracy study that the EU commissioned in 2013 has been kept hidden for years, likely because it did not find statistical proven evidence that piracy impacts legitimate purchases. Not "likely". "Because".
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  Not "because", "likely". Don't make assumptions
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    No make assumptions, don’t make conclusions until they’re verified or close to it.
crote 4y ago
I pirate movies because it simply provides a better user experience than streaming services. I happily pay the €9.99 for Spotify Premium. I think I actually use it maaaybe 4 or 5 days a month, but it has virtually all the content I listen to, it has a pretty good app, and it Just Works on all my platforms. I probably wouldn't go back to downloading MP3s if you paid me to. Meanwhile, the movie streaming experience sucks. The ecosystem is extremely fragmented (I'd probably need half a dozen subscriptions), content randomly disappears, the apps are universally awful and not even available on half my devices, and the bitrate is terrible. Alternatively, I can enter whatever title I want - no matter how obscure - into a torrent website and get a 4K download link. It's way more convenient! I am currently building a small Raspberry Pi based NAS to offload downloads from my space-limited main machine, and that thing will probably end up costing me €400-450 altogether. I could get two to three years of Netflix for that amount of money - and I would've happily given it to them if they just... didn't suck so much. The music industry saw a renaissance due to streaming and has never been more successful. The movie industry got greedy and delved too deep - they've got nobody to blame but themselves.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  The music industry saw this renaissance, but did the musicians? Except for the most popular artists, they seem to make very little from streaming.
  - 0xAFFFF 4y ago
    Living off record sales was never an option for the vast majority of musicians either.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      The record sales were the ad, money was in touring and merchandising. It's the exact same today.
      - colmmacc 4y ago
        This isn't so for every kind of music. Folk musicians, who mainly play small venues and even house concerts, would make $100 to $300 per show from selling CDs. The merch table at a Jazz club would mostly sell CDs and depending on the size of the club could pull in $500 or more in CD sales. Small classical groups like quartets and chamber music would play salons and again, CDs would be a big factor. This income would often double or more the artist's take from door sales (if any) and make the gigs viable at all. There used to be space for these musicians to eke out a modest but sustainable living touring a circuit of these types of gigs and festivals, but streaming really has killed most of it off. They could record a CD for a few thousand dollars and print maybe 5,000 copies, knowing that would turn into $50,000 - $75,000 of revenue at $10 to $15 per CD that they would mostly keep. But the crowd just don't buy CDs at anything near the rate that they used to. Now most of those musicians make most of their living by some other means and the music has become the side. It's very unfortunate.
Havoc 4y ago
It's also a very convenient backstop. If I can't find it on netflix or prime then without high seas I'd likely simply not watch whatever I was looking for. Unrelated - lately netflix is kicking out so many DRM errors that half the time I end up downloading it anyway even if its right there in netflix. Broken by design garbage sigh
akmarinov 4y ago
When the Mandalorian came out, you could watch in the US, but if you’re in Europe you had to wait 6+ months for Disney+ to be available in my country. No, thanks.
- nostromo123 4y ago
  Had the same experience with other content. I'm ready to pay, here's my money, take it! Instead I have to wait for months and be spoiled by seeing everyone discuss it, just because of some stupid regulation. No thanks - if you won't provide me the content legally for money, someone else will provide it to me for free, with much less hassle.
LorenPechtel 4y ago
And normally they expect their money up front before you know the quality. Want to cut game piracy? Offer up limited versions of games for free. Let the player see what they think of it before they plonk down their money. *If* you have a good product this should work. If you're selling hype or bugware it's going to fail horribly--a good thing.
- ssl232 4y ago
  I feel old because what you describe is called a demo and they used to be very common.
- mock-possum 4y ago
  Single best thing a game can do to sell me on purchasing it is: Provide a free demo - at the end of demo, if I want to keep playing, that’s means you’ve sold me, and you’ve done it about as honestly as possible. Short of making a really good demo then fumbling the rest of the paid game, a solid demo is your best shot. Second best is gameplay footage. No commentary, no “HEY WHATS UP FAMILY SMASH THE LIKE BELL” talk radio bullshit, just let me see the game being played. If all your trailers are a montage of CG and 1 second game clips, I’m going to assume you’re trying to pull one over on me - if I can’t play it myself, show me what playing it is like, and maybe I’ll take a shot and buy it. Third best is recommendations from people I trust. Organic / word of mouth is the lowest level of info I’ll pay attention to. Revel and announcement trailers don’t do it for me. Hype and buzz are suspect. Ads actively turn me off games - I’m never going to play Raid Shadow Legends, I’m never ever going to even try it, because their advertising is so obnoxious.
squarefoot 4y ago
Tangentially, newspapers sales too have been plummeting during the years, and I still have to see someone photocopying a newspaper. This also well before some of them were available online or in .pdf format that could be copied and shared. Some markets shrink over time, period. Blaming that on piracy is not only misleading but feeds incompetent or corrupt politicians with a convenient excuse to restrict online freedoms.

98 points by tanelpoder 4y ago

TLDR the EU found that privacy will maybe reduce top movies earnings by 5%. Also, 80% of respondents find TV streaming prices too expensive in comparison to the content offered.

throwaway8689 4y ago
We can all debate the quality of Netflix or Prime but the cost is about the same as renting a VHS tape from Blockbuster once a week 20 years ago. Not even adjusting for inflation.
- unixgoddess 4y ago
  a big difference is that you could find vhs and dvds in public libraries, whereas the library model breaks apart for streamed media.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    My library does actually have streaming movies and TV. But the comparison of what they have available to stream vs take out physically on DVD and Blu-ray just highlights how messed up it is. You will struggle to find a movie you've heard from the past 10 years, you will struggle to find a good movie from the past 30. Meanwhile the physical library has recent new releases and stuff you've actually heard of and want to watch.
    - throwaway8689 4y ago
      Agree. I'd go to Blockbuster for block busters and the library or an independent video rental store for art house and foreign language films.
krfsm 4y ago
Note that in 2013 there weren't many streaming services available in the polled countries. Netflix first appeared in UK and Sweden by 2012, and was probably not available at all in the other polled countries. So it's more likely that TV show prices refer to cable TV, not streaming.
rspoerri 4y ago
i think you meant to write piracy not privacy

moremetadata 4y ago

Although technically, its not piracy, I cant see why anyone would want to stream a movie or subscription series to their phone and watch it. I think this study highlights some people watch any poor quality movie in order to take part in conversations with their peers. I'd rather go without because the CGI is detracting from the experience and the story lines are all variations of others.

kramerger 4y ago

With streaming services increasing their prices significantly and the hunt on password sharing, I think if this study is repeated 3 years from now the results will look very different. I canceled 2 subscriptions and switched down one tier on another subscription last month. I bet the clueless execs will blame it on piracy...

isubasinghe 4y ago

This doesn't surprise me, I pirate stuff because I am bored and want something to watch. The price tag to buy movies at $20 or so dollars is just too much. I did have a patch of piracy free media when Netflix was had everything I wanted to watch, now Netflix cancels nearly every show I get excited about after one season. In addition to this there are like 5 or 6 providers now, paying $20 or so per provider for 4k streaming is just too costly.

Avamander 4y ago
Not only too costly, but seriously unfair. Median salaries differ up to five times on the same continent, bit less inside the EU, yet prices aren't adjusted for that. People often pay times as much adjusted and also get less content, simply inane.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I see significant different prices for Netflix in different countries, such as Denmark and Bulgaria. My own reason not to subscribe is the language for subtitles etc. Netflix in Denmark often lacks English subtitles. This isn't very good, when 4% of EU citizens live in a country they weren't born in.

frankreyes 4y ago

You wouldn't download a car.

lemoncookiechip 4y ago
I would totally download a real car to 3D print, lol.
theodric 4y ago
Watch me
bigger_inside 4y ago
those 15 year old talking points from "the more you know"-talking points financed by transnational entertainment exploiters just won't die, will they?

IYasha 4y ago

> A piracy study that the EU commissioned in 2013 has been kept hidden for years, likely because it did not find statistical proven evidence that piracy impacts legitimate purchases. Not "likely". "Because".

ChrisRR 4y ago
Not "because", "likely". Don't make assumptions
- Jcowell 4y ago
  No make assumptions, don’t make conclusions until they’re verified or close to it.

crote 4y ago

I pirate movies because it simply provides a better user experience than streaming services. I happily pay the €9.99 for Spotify Premium. I think I actually use it maaaybe 4 or 5 days a month, but it has virtually all the content I listen to, it has a pretty good app, and it Just Works on all my platforms. I probably wouldn't go back to downloading MP3s if you paid me to. Meanwhile, the movie streaming experience sucks. The ecosystem is extremely fragmented (I'd probably need half a dozen subscriptions), content randomly disappears, the apps are universally awful and not even available on half my devices, and the bitrate is terrible. Alternatively, I can enter whatever title I want - no matter how obscure - into a torrent website and get a 4K download link. It's way more convenient! I am currently building a small Raspberry Pi based NAS to offload downloads from my space-limited main machine, and that thing will probably end up costing me €400-450 altogether. I could get two to three years of Netflix for that amount of money - and I would've happily given it to them if they just... didn't suck so much. The music industry saw a renaissance due to streaming and has never been more successful. The movie industry got greedy and delved too deep - they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

Symbiote 4y ago
The music industry saw this renaissance, but did the musicians? Except for the most popular artists, they seem to make very little from streaming.
- 0xAFFFF 4y ago
  Living off record sales was never an option for the vast majority of musicians either.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    The record sales were the ad, money was in touring and merchandising. It's the exact same today.
    - colmmacc 4y ago
      This isn't so for every kind of music. Folk musicians, who mainly play small venues and even house concerts, would make $100 to $300 per show from selling CDs. The merch table at a Jazz club would mostly sell CDs and depending on the size of the club could pull in $500 or more in CD sales. Small classical groups like quartets and chamber music would play salons and again, CDs would be a big factor. This income would often double or more the artist's take from door sales (if any) and make the gigs viable at all. There used to be space for these musicians to eke out a modest but sustainable living touring a circuit of these types of gigs and festivals, but streaming really has killed most of it off. They could record a CD for a few thousand dollars and print maybe 5,000 copies, knowing that would turn into $50,000 - $75,000 of revenue at $10 to $15 per CD that they would mostly keep. But the crowd just don't buy CDs at anything near the rate that they used to. Now most of those musicians make most of their living by some other means and the music has become the side. It's very unfortunate.

Havoc 4y ago

It's also a very convenient backstop. If I can't find it on netflix or prime then without high seas I'd likely simply not watch whatever I was looking for. Unrelated - lately netflix is kicking out so many DRM errors that half the time I end up downloading it anyway even if its right there in netflix. Broken by design garbage sigh

akmarinov 4y ago

When the Mandalorian came out, you could watch in the US, but if you’re in Europe you had to wait 6+ months for Disney+ to be available in my country. No, thanks.

nostromo123 4y ago
Had the same experience with other content. I'm ready to pay, here's my money, take it! Instead I have to wait for months and be spoiled by seeing everyone discuss it, just because of some stupid regulation. No thanks - if you won't provide me the content legally for money, someone else will provide it to me for free, with much less hassle.

LorenPechtel 4y ago

And normally they expect their money up front before you know the quality. Want to cut game piracy? Offer up limited versions of games for free. Let the player see what they think of it before they plonk down their money. *If* you have a good product this should work. If you're selling hype or bugware it's going to fail horribly--a good thing.

ssl232 4y ago
I feel old because what you describe is called a demo and they used to be very common.
mock-possum 4y ago
Single best thing a game can do to sell me on purchasing it is: Provide a free demo - at the end of demo, if I want to keep playing, that’s means you’ve sold me, and you’ve done it about as honestly as possible. Short of making a really good demo then fumbling the rest of the paid game, a solid demo is your best shot. Second best is gameplay footage. No commentary, no “HEY WHATS UP FAMILY SMASH THE LIKE BELL” talk radio bullshit, just let me see the game being played. If all your trailers are a montage of CG and 1 second game clips, I’m going to assume you’re trying to pull one over on me - if I can’t play it myself, show me what playing it is like, and maybe I’ll take a shot and buy it. Third best is recommendations from people I trust. Organic / word of mouth is the lowest level of info I’ll pay attention to. Revel and announcement trailers don’t do it for me. Hype and buzz are suspect. Ads actively turn me off games - I’m never going to play Raid Shadow Legends, I’m never ever going to even try it, because their advertising is so obnoxious.

squarefoot 4y ago

Tangentially, newspapers sales too have been plummeting during the years, and I still have to see someone photocopying a newspaper. This also well before some of them were available online or in .pdf format that could be copied and shared. Some markets shrink over time, period. Blaming that on piracy is not only misleading but feeds incompetent or corrupt politicians with a convenient excuse to restrict online freedoms.