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> In the same way, people don’t buy a dishwasher, they buy clean dishes before their next meal. Ironically, this tells me some... awkward things about how the
by RangerScience 4y ago
> In the same way, people don’t buy a dishwasher, they buy clean dishes before their next meal.
Ironically, this tells me some... awkward things about how the author relates to their kitchen. I cook - a lot. I host parties - usually dinner parties - and I use cheap Ikea plates & etc instead of disposable anythings. And like (most?) millenials-ish, the kitchen is where we tend to hang out.
My dishwasher isn't so that I have clean dishes before the next meal. It's so that I have a clean kitchen after.
(If I wanted only clean dishes before my next meal... actually I'd probably want as fast a dishwasher as possible.)
- wheels 4y agoYeah, I often also do parties, where I cook for 20-ish people, and often have 3-4 dishwasher loads after a party. Speed does matter some. Where it matters a lot more is that I live in an condo where officially I'm not supposed to run my dishwasher after 10:00 p.m. The difference between 1 or 3 hours is significant there for running it after dinner. (I basically only run it after 10:00 p.m. after parties; got a very quiet model for that reason.) Particularly since I have some stuff I'd like to have clean before the morning. This is a pretty terrible example for the author's point.
- phkahler 4y agoImagine a dishwasher that cleans a single dish in a few seconds. You could wash and put away in similar time to loading a regular dishwasher, and capacity would no longer be an issue. Taking something from being a process to being a single step in a process can have huge impact to how we do things and what is possible.
- djbusby 4y agoCommercial kitchen ones, one single tray load, washed in 120s, comes out hot as fire so they air dry quick.
- graderjs 4y agoCame here to say this. I worked a lot in commercial kitchens as a dishwasher during college time and I love the commercial dishwashers. Super solid, superfast, super high powered, mostly super effective except for the really really greasy stains on plates or where you need to scrub some slow cooking trays or pots. I’ve always wanted to buy one from my house. From what I remember we have three cycles: a 60 second a 90 seconds and a 120 second cycle and all pretty effective. Most of the cafés I worked in (coffee, sandwiches and baked snacks mostly) basically just use 60 second cycles. That was 20 years ago though, so maybe the tech has changed by now!
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago1. they’re really de-greasers, you have to pre-wash the plates 2. the surfactants used are suspected to destroy the gut barrier, because they aren’t being washed off for speed reasons, unlike consumer models
- krageon 4y agoYou need to rinse off what you put in if there is a lot of stuff on it, not because it will not be cleaned (it probably will) but because you don't want to have to clean that out of the machine at the end of the night. What does it mean for the gut barrier to be destroyed? I've worked in such kitchens in the past and there wasn't any material change in how I digest food or how sick I get, so I would suspect it's not as terrible as it sounds.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y agoWell I guess if you're not affected it can't be an issue, can it. Also those asians should simply try milk. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091674922014774 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009167492...
- krageon 4y ago
- eternityforest 4y agoMaybe if you had special laser cleanable dishes? Or semi reusable dishes where you have a very thin bioplastic film that is applied with a machine, thin enough to make cost and environmental concerns less relevant, and then on the bottom you have an air hole. Compressed air up it blows the film off and you start again. Then the same hole is used to vacuum form the new film, while a computer vision camera makes sure everything happened correctly. Could you make it thin enough to be less wasteful than the water to actually wash?
- kerpotgh 4y ago[dead]
- SoftTalker 4y agoGood lord. I don’t even know 20 people… at least not well enough to have them over for dinner.
- tehwebguy 4y agoIt can start with just one but if the dinner is good enough you’ll hit 20 in no time!
- fifilura 4y agoDo it! Or the easy way. 1. Find a husband/wife. 2. Get some kids. 3. Get some more kids. 4. Invite some other families with lots of kids now and then. 5. Profit!
- kleiba 4y agoExtra brownie points for getting married to someone with a big family.
- fifilura 4y agoOr divorcing after step 3 and remarrying someone else with lots of kids. You'll suddenly have double the kids but only every second week!
- oblio 4y ago> Do it! > Or the easy way. > 1. Find a husband/wife. 2. Get some kids. 3. Get some more kids. 4. Invite some other families with lots of kids now and then. 5. Profit! I think you're mixing up the "easy" and "hard" ways here :-)))
- jrumbut 4y agoTruth be told I found #1 very easy, #2 and #3 seem straightforward enough, but since I've made it a goal to see friends more it's been a herculean task. I find myself being one of very few people actually taking the initiative to propose in person hangouts and to make them happen usually involves doing everything in my power to make them as low effort/cost as possible for others. And honestly I'm grateful for the people who actually agree to do things, they're hard to find!
- kmlx 4y ago> often have 3-4 dishwasher loads after a party. tip: get more dishwashers. it will make your life easier.
- cudgy 4y agoOr wash the big items by hand and load the many small ones in the dishwasher.
- fifilura 4y agoI also often have ~20p over for dinner. Not so uncommon when you meet a couple of families with each a bunch of kids. However - these types of dishwasher loads stack really well, actually the type of dishes dishwashers are made for packing. You can easily fill the dishwasher with 20 plates of the same type, same with cutlery and glasses. And most of the times at these parties the dishes are fresh, so easy to clean. Another note. In Sweden and Europe the trend has been for slower programs. To be able to meet the energy consumption benchmarks. 30 years ago dishwashers would typically be done in 1h. Nowadays the default program is often set to 3h. (With an option to do it faster and burn more energy)
- jhoechtl 4y agoThis is also telling how thin the walls are where you live. I live in an old house with an old and fairly loud dishwasher. One door closed and there are no vibrations or noise problem. Can a dishwasher really become a noise problem?
- RangerScience 4y agoProbably floors more than walls, contact points with both, and not so much "thin / thick" but "does this transmit the vibration". Like subwoofers on the ground, it changes how the sound carries.
- masklinn 4y agoExactly. It’s about how well (or how poorly) the superstructure dampens (or transmits) vibrations.
- wheels 4y agoNo, I live in a new building with reinforced concrete external walls. But it's a general rule in Berlin. (Other German states have other rules, often with restrictions even earlier.) And yes, I have been able to hear neighbors dishwashers before. Again, through the floor, not through the walls, though not in my current building (where I'm on the top floor).
- Macha 4y agoFunnily enough here one part of the government, as part of an environmental push, is trying to encourage people to run appliances like dishwashers and washing machines at night to use renewable power that is currently underutilisied rather than contributing to how much of the fossil power is used at times of peak load. Of course, at the same time, the also government run fire service is trying to encourage people _not_ to do that for fire safety reasons.
- stuaxo 4y agoNot being able to run after 10 would be a pain. I guess with a timer it could run in the morning and work from home means the day could work. Totally stops using cheaper energy at night too.
- jrumbut 4y agoImagine if it leaks? Or anything else goes wrong? I've never heard of a dishwasher so loud it couldn't be run any time.
- masklinn 4y ago> Imagine if it leaks? Or anything else goes wrong? I’ve never remained next to a dishwasher for the entire time in order to baby it in case of trouble, have you? Plus a modern dishwasher uses less than 4 gal water for the entire cycle, there’s likely less than 2 gal in it at any one time. > I've never heard of a dishwasher so loud it couldn't be run any time. Then either you’ve never lived in an apartment building or you’re deaf. As a sufferer of chronic insomnia, 11pm dishwashers are a bane (though less so than midnight washing machines).
- jrumbut 4y ago> I’ve never remained next to a dishwasher for the entire time in order to baby it in case of trouble, have you? This is from experience actually! The last two I've had (heavily used before I got them) had a tendency to leak, so I take a peek at them from time to time when they run. Basically the same level of attention I might pay the oven when it's on or a candle. I would recommend it. A leaking dishwasher can do a surprising amount of damage. > Then either you’ve never lived in an apartment building or you’re deaf. Neither are true!
- philwelch 4y agoOlder dishwashers can be pretty loud, but mine is quieter than my HVAC system.
- Xylakant 4y ago
- late2part 4y agothe joy of having two dishwashers is rarely overstated.
- ctroein89 4y ago> Ironically, this tells me some... awkward things about how the author relates to their kitchen. It also says a lot about how the author relates to restaurants, where a faster dishwasher is a selling point. Faster is separately important from throughput, because if it the takes 3 hours to run the dish washer, that’s a lot of plates that need to be washed and stacked all at once for a restaurant, and a lot of dishwashers needed to handle that volume.
- bawolff 4y agoTbf, commercial dishwashers are totally different type of device than home dishwashers.
- moremetadata 4y agoYeah the domestic variety, dont rinse the cleaning chemicals off the dishes properly, so they always stink of gunk after they have been cleaned. I think it would be healthier to employer someone to wash and rinse dishes properly, like a servant.
- Symbiote 4y agoYou should clean your dishwasher, and check you aren't using too much detergent. (You know you aren't supposed to fill up the detergent holder to the top?)
- gambiting 4y ago>>so they always stink of gunk after they have been cleaned No, that's just the issue of detergent people use, some brands are perfumed to high hell and more because people have this weird idea that the stronger it smells the better it cleans - which is obviously nonsense. You should be aware that with some smells it's not an issue of not enough rinsing - they linger no matter how much you rinse and rinse and rinse - it's not a safety issue. If you want to have clean dishes with zero smell afterwards, get something like the Finish 0% tablets, they aren't perfumed at all, so there is no smell when you open the dishwasher. I use them for that reason alone.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoA dishwasher buys the convenience of not doing the dishes. That frees your time in itself and in general the time it takes the dishwasher to run is not critical.
- ihateolives 4y ago> in general the time it takes the dishwasher to run is not critical I have children. They use plates, bowls, cups, cutlery, more bowls, more plates, more cups. I have only limited room for additional dishes. Dishes better be done before dinner or else somebody is going to have bad time. And generally if someone in the family is having bad time then everybody is going to have bad time.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago> Dishes better be done before dinner or else somebody is going to have bad time. Of course but since there are several hours between meals, even if you have to run your dishwasher after each meal the time it takes to run is not critical as long as it's done within that timeframe. Basically, in general it does not matter whether it takes 1 hour or 2 hours.
- alliao 4y agoduralex picardie tumblers are indestructible and cheap, I have a drawer full of them and yet kids can use a dozen plus a day... moving away from bowls to plates really help with cramming too but I'm Asian and have to say it ain't easy to let bowls go
- raverbashing 4y agoTaking one-off examples and extrapolating the average problem is also a tendency of some engineers For most people, most of the time, running for 3h is fine And unless your dishes are really dirty, the shorter and more energy efficient programs run fine and are done in 1h or less
- kbelder 4y agoLike cars; you don't buy based on daily needs, you buy based on exceptional needs. If you're ever going to need a car to haul six people, you're going to get a car that holds six people. If you're ever going to need a dishwasher to wash dishes quickly, you're going to buy a fast dishwasher. It doesn't matter that it's only needed once every two weeks.
- flippinburgers 4y agoAlso nobody here appears to know that different places in the world have quite different size expectations for a consumer level dishwasher. In Japan... tiny as can be.
- verinus 4y agoHaving a large family of my own and sometimes hosting get-togethers I can not agree with your sentiment. I would not buy a dishwasher for 1% of my use-cases that otherwise wastes lot's of resources (presumably being much to large for everyday usage). Our standard eco program runs for ~3h minimizing water, electricity and chemical usage. On the other hand I would be totally fine to buy another set of dishes for said occasions.
- masklinn 4y agoI feel like that used to be pretty standard for my parents’ generation and older: you’d have one set of dishes and cutlery (dented, mismatched, …) for normal use, and you’d get the “good” ware (silverware and fine porcelain) for hosting, with uniform everything for everyone, small cups for tea / coffee instead of the usual mug, … Obviously that requires a house as you pretty much need a cabinet at least partially dedicated to storing this day-to-day.
- patrickwalton 4y agoI've long wanted some kind of miniaturized version of a cafeteria dishwasher where you put dirty dishes in one side and clean dishes come out the other a few seconds later. I want my kitchen to stay clean and it would be so nice for everyone to be able to clean and put away their dish right after the meal.
- fatnoah 4y ago> My dishwasher isn't so that I have clean dishes before the next meal. It's so that I have a clean kitchen after. So much this! My first act in preparing a meal is to empty the dishwasher so that I can rinse stuff and put it in the dishwasher as I go. Sometimes, it gets full between meals, so having the "fast" cycle lets me get dishes clean and the washer emptied before I start the next meal. This article is a great example of the "I don't understand who might want it, so therefore it's not worth doing" mentality of many folks.
- crabbone 4y agoI think there's some misconception about faster dishwashers here. Faster dishwashers are almost as good as faster clocks. The idea behind operating a dishwasher is that you let dishes be washed for X time. So, if you wanted dishes to be washed for X - 1 time, you'd just open the dishwasher earlier. I mean, dishwashers don't guaranty that your dishes will be clean after X time. They guarantee washing them for X time. They aren't concerned with whether or not it will make them clean. So, speeding up the process is trivial, but doesn't result in anything useful, which was the point the author was trying to make. I'm not trying to defend the author's general claim. I also think that even if the metaphor doesn't work for you -- it's not really all that important in the context of the article. Just trying to give a way to understand what the author probably meant when making that metaphor.
- coldtea 4y agoSo, the author is more representative of the average consumer, rather than some frequent-dinner-party-hosting partying person?
- JohnFen 4y ago> this tells me some... awkward things about how the author relates to their kitchen. Awkward? What awkward things does it tell you? I think that all it tells you is that you are different people. It also invalidates his assertion that "nobody need..." -- which is hyperbole anyhow. Any time someone says "everybody" or "nobody" or other universal qualifiers, the statement is guaranteed to be technically incorrect. You are precisely the sort of person who could use a fast dishwasher, after all.