8 ms·

Likewise Gen Z and Alpha are not very technical. Many teens and 20 somethings have a hard time with seemingly basic tasks like finding files. As a 20 something

Likewise Gen Z and Alpha are not very technical. Many teens and 20 somethings have a hard time with seemingly basic tasks like finding files. As a 20 something myself, my public school did not offer any 'technical' courses beyond office programs and keyboarding.

brokenmachine 4y ago
In fairness, modern mobile devices seem to be determined to make how the filesystem works as opaque as possible.
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  Files and folders are based on a metaphor applying to paper-based organizational systems. People used to have typewriter printouts that they used to mark up by pen and place into folders, then file away into filing cabinets. Is there really a need for a filesystem other than in the vestiges of what we consider an operating system?
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    This. The "files and folders" metaphor never worked even in the heyday of computer literacy, most people never understood it and just dumped all their crap on the desktop. Seeing as the metaphor did not, does not, and will not work it is only reasonable that personal computing is slowly moving away from it and towards something the users actually want: One singular place to store everything (and I mean everything) and a one-stop quick way to find something in there, organization be damned. Email is perhaps one of the earliest manifestations of this user desire: Everything goes in the one singular Inbox, and you search for whatever mail you need.
    - brokenmachine 4y ago
      I prefer being able to find stuff. Tags or folders, I don't care. But I need some kind of organization. A giant pile with a crappy search box that hardly works does not cut it.
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        >Tags or folders, I don't care. My point exactly. The people who cry that the young today can't file-and-folder fail to understand bloody nobody, neither young nor old, cares for file-and-folder.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        The problem is that mobile devices lack competent tagging on most things and don't let you organize with folders either. And folders are a very simple concept. If you can't handle them on a system that uses them, that's bad.
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        >And folders are a very simple concept. If you can't handle them on a system that uses them, that's bad. Simple to us. I've seen accountants, aka people who deal with files and folders as a matter of their god damn line of work, fail to understand or care for files and folders in computers. They still put everything on the desktop. Fact of the matter is people do not care for files-and-folders. It's high time we admit most people do not want it, do not care for it, and just want to store everything in one place with an easy one-stop way to find what they want. Most people don't care about file systems, and both iOS and Android are right for abstracting away something nobody cares about.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        Putting things on the desktop or not caring for folders is different from not understanding the concept. > just want to store everything in one place with an easy one-stop way to find what they want That's a pipe dream. If you want good search results, then you need to put in organizational effort. Whether or not you're using folders.
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        >Putting things on the desktop or not caring for folders is different from not understanding the concept. Yes, but whether they understand or not they still clearly don't care. >That's a pipe dream. If you want good search results, then you need to put in organizational effort. The thing is people will not put in effort, whether out of neglect or ignorance. "It's in the 'puter." is as far as most people will care, and operating environments that respect this attitude end up having the widest mainstream appeal and adoption. It's like manual and automatic transmission in cars. Most people drive their cars to get from A to B, they couldn't give a flying banana how it works. The enthusiasts arguing over stick shift are martians, the people just want a bloody car to get them where they want to be and car manufacturers will and should oblige the people.
    - didericis 4y ago
      > a one-stop quick way to find something in there, organization be damned. I understand the desire, and clever search indexing allegedly solves this, but it's fundamentally an impossible tradeoff. Organization is essential to finding things. I'm tired of people pretending search and AI can solve that problem. It can help, but it can't tell you what x or y thing you want is. I find myself typing nonsense like "what's the thing that's important in speaking" if I watched a video about how to give a good talk and am wanting to watch a part of it again. I haven't given it a title relative to how I think about it, I haven't thought about how to categorize it, and I haven't let a "place" for it settle in my head, because I didn't bookmark it or add it to a playlist.
moffkalast 4y ago
Each generation consists of roughly 90% of people who are completely clueless about anything computer related. Those of us that work in the field usually can't even conceive of it but it's true.
- beardog 4y ago
  Indeed, you could say the same about cars and plumbing too (with some variation in %). People tend to think younger people are automatically 'good at computers' though.

brokenmachine 4y ago

In fairness, modern mobile devices seem to be determined to make how the filesystem works as opaque as possible.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago
Files and folders are based on a metaphor applying to paper-based organizational systems. People used to have typewriter printouts that they used to mark up by pen and place into folders, then file away into filing cabinets. Is there really a need for a filesystem other than in the vestiges of what we consider an operating system?
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  This. The "files and folders" metaphor never worked even in the heyday of computer literacy, most people never understood it and just dumped all their crap on the desktop. Seeing as the metaphor did not, does not, and will not work it is only reasonable that personal computing is slowly moving away from it and towards something the users actually want: One singular place to store everything (and I mean everything) and a one-stop quick way to find something in there, organization be damned. Email is perhaps one of the earliest manifestations of this user desire: Everything goes in the one singular Inbox, and you search for whatever mail you need.
  - brokenmachine 4y ago
    I prefer being able to find stuff. Tags or folders, I don't care. But I need some kind of organization. A giant pile with a crappy search box that hardly works does not cut it.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >Tags or folders, I don't care. My point exactly. The people who cry that the young today can't file-and-folder fail to understand bloody nobody, neither young nor old, cares for file-and-folder.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        The problem is that mobile devices lack competent tagging on most things and don't let you organize with folders either. And folders are a very simple concept. If you can't handle them on a system that uses them, that's bad.
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        >And folders are a very simple concept. If you can't handle them on a system that uses them, that's bad. Simple to us. I've seen accountants, aka people who deal with files and folders as a matter of their god damn line of work, fail to understand or care for files and folders in computers. They still put everything on the desktop. Fact of the matter is people do not care for files-and-folders. It's high time we admit most people do not want it, do not care for it, and just want to store everything in one place with an easy one-stop way to find what they want. Most people don't care about file systems, and both iOS and Android are right for abstracting away something nobody cares about.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        Putting things on the desktop or not caring for folders is different from not understanding the concept. > just want to store everything in one place with an easy one-stop way to find what they want That's a pipe dream. If you want good search results, then you need to put in organizational effort. Whether or not you're using folders.
        Dalewyn 4y ago
        >Putting things on the desktop or not caring for folders is different from not understanding the concept. Yes, but whether they understand or not they still clearly don't care. >That's a pipe dream. If you want good search results, then you need to put in organizational effort. The thing is people will not put in effort, whether out of neglect or ignorance. "It's in the 'puter." is as far as most people will care, and operating environments that respect this attitude end up having the widest mainstream appeal and adoption. It's like manual and automatic transmission in cars. Most people drive their cars to get from A to B, they couldn't give a flying banana how it works. The enthusiasts arguing over stick shift are martians, the people just want a bloody car to get them where they want to be and car manufacturers will and should oblige the people.
  - didericis 4y ago
    > a one-stop quick way to find something in there, organization be damned. I understand the desire, and clever search indexing allegedly solves this, but it's fundamentally an impossible tradeoff. Organization is essential to finding things. I'm tired of people pretending search and AI can solve that problem. It can help, but it can't tell you what x or y thing you want is. I find myself typing nonsense like "what's the thing that's important in speaking" if I watched a video about how to give a good talk and am wanting to watch a part of it again. I haven't given it a title relative to how I think about it, I haven't thought about how to categorize it, and I haven't let a "place" for it settle in my head, because I didn't bookmark it or add it to a playlist.

moffkalast 4y ago

Each generation consists of roughly 90% of people who are completely clueless about anything computer related. Those of us that work in the field usually can't even conceive of it but it's true.

beardog 4y ago
Indeed, you could say the same about cars and plumbing too (with some variation in %). People tend to think younger people are automatically 'good at computers' though.