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> every citizen of the first world Where I lived in Italy, people certainly purchase houses, but they don't expect them to have crazy returns like in the US. I
by davidw 4y ago
> every citizen of the first world
Where I lived in Italy, people certainly purchase houses, but they don't expect them to have crazy returns like in the US. It's just a way to not pay rent and have something that you can hang on to even if there's inflation or other funny business (something that Italy has seen a lot of).
People even invest in, say, apartments, but it's a similar story: they expect them to hold their value and pay themselves off over a number of years. There are certainly returns on it, but they are seen as steady, long term investments.
Where I live in Oregon, during the most recent boom, there were houses "earning" more than 100,000 a year, just sitting there. That's more than the median household.
Yeah, it's a bit apples to oranges, but still, it's really out of kilter.
Long term, it'd be healthiest if housing were 'boring', neither gaining or losing much. That'd also facilitate people swapping out different housing at different stages of their lives without worrying about timing the market.
For instance, there are a lot of people getting older in the town I live in. Are they always going to want to or be able to shovel snow? Mow their lawns? Maybe a townhouse or a condo would be a better alternative that lets them stay in their general neighborhood.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoThere is lots of boring housing in the US. It is not going to be in the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Just like houses in the Alps in Italy versus less desirable places in Italy.
- davidw 4y ago"Just go somewhere else" is causing even the 'boring' places to have problems: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/business/economy/spokane-housing-expensive-cities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/business/economy/spokane-... We need some more fundamental reforms.
- mywittyname 4y agoSuch as what? The merging of Seattle and Tacoma was inevitable. The same thing has happened to a lot of cities that are separate by <1hr commutes via highways.
- davidw 4y agoHopefully this year, Washington will follow in Oregon's footsteps and re-legalize things like 4-plexes, or maybe go even further in big cities like Seattle. Basically, "(re)legalize housing", along with things like corner stores and neighborhood commercial like corner stores and barber shops.
- irq 4y agoCheck out upstate NY. I found a <20 year old 4000sqft home, >40 acres, gigabit fiber internet, in ground pool, outbuildings, and a backup generator for well under $500k. Even with the higher taxes here vs the west coast, I'm ahead. Only caveats are you need to enjoy seclusion (check) and be good at remote employment (this year will be my 10 year anniversary of being 100% remote). Energy costs are a bit high, so I installed 20 kW of solar and will be switching to an air-sourced heat pump for heating & cooling. Even adding these costs to the purchase price results in paying less.
- davidw 4y agoThat's nice if you can make it work, it's a quick solution to the housing problem. But for a lot of people being close to the economic powerhouse areas of the country is a win, and we should figure out how to make that work for them. And, long term, migrating further and further out is just going to delay the problem, because it'll arrive eventually unless they're in complete economic free fall.
- prawn 4y agoAnother aspect is that being near family while raising your children is immensely helpful. Housing prices have gone 30-40x since my parents bought, for example. Salaries have definitely not increased at a similar pace!
- liketochill 4y agoI’m not surprised Spokane real estate market popped. Expect that in every small town surrounded by beautiful mountains …
- wankle 4y ago> Where I lived in Italy, people certainly purchase houses, but they don't expect them to have crazy returns like in the US. It's just a way to not pay rent and have something that you can hang on to even if there's inflation or other funny business (something that Italy has seen a lot of). Agreed, we didn't buy house as an investment vehicle, we bought it for living expenses consistency over time. It's the speculators that ruin any market.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]