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> The fact that Alexa is always listening, even when you're not talking to it, is straight up creepy. Also just plain annoying. In principle a home assistant s

> The fact that Alexa is always listening, even when you're not talking to it, is straight up creepy. Also just plain annoying. In principle a home assistant should maintain a ring-buffer that listens for its "wake word" and then immediately discards any audio that doesn't match the trigger. Only audio that includes and follows that word should ever exit the device to the network. That reduces the privacy risk to accidental triggers, which happen sometimes (but relatively rarely.) I've been told by security experts that this is (or rather was, as of 2018) the behavior of Alexa. I'd like to believe that we live in a world where Amazon/Apple/Google respect privacy and won't change that behavior via a software update (and if they do, they will be smacked hard by regulators.) I'm not 100% convinced we do live in that world, unfortunately.

ajdude 4y ago
Whenever I think about this, I'm reminded of that time someone asked Amazon for their personal data via gdpr, and Amazon sent them recordings from alexia of entire conversations and even clips from in the shower -- from an entirely family by mistake! https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sends-alexa-shower-recordings-to-wrong-person-2018-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sends-alexa-shower-re...
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  You can review all of your Alexa sessions (with recordings!) in the Alexa app[0]. [0] - https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GHXNJNLTRWCTBBGW#:~:text=Open%20the%20Alexa%20app%20.,by%20device%20or%20voice%20ID https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=....
  - hellweaver666 4y ago
    Or via the web! https://www.amazon.co.uk/alexa-privacy/apd/rvh https://www.amazon.co.uk/alexa-privacy/apd/rvh
Aperocky 4y ago
> In principle a home assistant should maintain a ring-buffer that listens for its "wake word" and then immediately discards any audio that doesn't match the trigger. Should this be easy to verify with network monitoring? audio data is quite heavy. I'm assuming if audio information gets uploaded, it will be quite obvious on the data. We haven't heard about it, and I'm for that reason I don't think it actually does not do it (i.e. the ring buffer hypothesis is likely correct).
- ipaddr 4y ago
  What if it gets turned on selectively?
- fladrif 4y ago
  It doesn't need to upload audio data though, transcribing it to text would accomplish 90% of their use cases.
  - drstewart 4y ago
    How do you think it gets transcribed to text?
  - gr4yb34rd 4y ago
    I doubt the guts of something like an Echo would be capable of containing any kind of speech to text model. It'll probably be a lot more of a concern in a few years when speech models like that are getting baked into cheap chips for consumer devices, though.
    - dehrmann 4y ago
      Early versions of Dragon Naturally Speaking ran on Pentiums.
      - chickenchicken 4y ago
        I remember seeing this on a trade fair as a child with my mother in 1993
ipaddr 4y ago
Can it be turned on so Amazon / government employees could listen for 'quality assurance' purposes. The fact that we are guessing tells us it's probably an easy area to exploit now or in the future.
user3939382 4y ago
> maintain a ring-buffer that listens for its "wake word" and then immediately discards any audio that doesn't match Thousands of Amazon Workers Listen to Alexa Users' Conversations https://time.com/5568815/amazon-workers-listen-to-alexa/ https://time.com/5568815/amazon-workers-listen-to-alexa/
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  That article is literally talking about amazon workers listening to queries asked to Alexa. Are you mad that they have a feedback loop that lets them improve? They’re not spying on you talking about your mundane life. No profit in that.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - user3939382 4y ago
    I'm not mad because I wouldn't use Alexa if my life depended on it.
Aeolun 4y ago
I’m fairly certain some Amazon engineer working on Alexa posted a message here saying they didn’t send anything unless the wake word was spoken. Since this is HN, I sort of took them at their word.
- corbulo 4y ago
  The trick is in what it interprets as its wakeword. I remember looking at the recordings google stores back in 2015-2016. I had never used hey google (at all, ever), but it sure recorded a ton of irrelevant crap at my work and other conversations. Ill probably never use a personal assistant. Too invasive.
  - rapnie 4y ago
    These devices are increasingly invading the homes of my friends and family is my problem.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rapnie 4y ago
> I'm not 100% convinced we do live in that world, unfortunately. Yes. I think also in principle we should not trust any advertising or other business deeply entrenched in surveillance capitalism to respect our privacy in any way, shape or form. Valuing privacy and having an Alexa doesn't combine. Having such device is not just creepy, it is foolish.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  I feel differently about this. I think that privacy-conscious people should be comfortable availing themselves of common technologies that are in widespread use. And we should pressure firms to make those technologies safe.

ajdude 4y ago

Whenever I think about this, I'm reminded of that time someone asked Amazon for their personal data via gdpr, and Amazon sent them recordings from alexia of entire conversations and even clips from in the shower -- from an entirely family by mistake! https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sends-alexa-shower-recordings-to-wrong-person-2018-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sends-alexa-shower-re...

kkielhofner 4y ago
You can review all of your Alexa sessions (with recordings!) in the Alexa app[0]. [0] - https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GHXNJNLTRWCTBBGW#:~:text=Open%20the%20Alexa%20app%20.,by%20device%20or%20voice%20ID https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=....
- hellweaver666 4y ago
  Or via the web! https://www.amazon.co.uk/alexa-privacy/apd/rvh https://www.amazon.co.uk/alexa-privacy/apd/rvh

Aperocky 4y ago

> In principle a home assistant should maintain a ring-buffer that listens for its "wake word" and then immediately discards any audio that doesn't match the trigger. Should this be easy to verify with network monitoring? audio data is quite heavy. I'm assuming if audio information gets uploaded, it will be quite obvious on the data. We haven't heard about it, and I'm for that reason I don't think it actually does not do it (i.e. the ring buffer hypothesis is likely correct).

ipaddr 4y ago
What if it gets turned on selectively?
fladrif 4y ago
It doesn't need to upload audio data though, transcribing it to text would accomplish 90% of their use cases.
- drstewart 4y ago
  How do you think it gets transcribed to text?
- gr4yb34rd 4y ago
  I doubt the guts of something like an Echo would be capable of containing any kind of speech to text model. It'll probably be a lot more of a concern in a few years when speech models like that are getting baked into cheap chips for consumer devices, though.
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    Early versions of Dragon Naturally Speaking ran on Pentiums.
    - chickenchicken 4y ago
      I remember seeing this on a trade fair as a child with my mother in 1993

ipaddr 4y ago

Can it be turned on so Amazon / government employees could listen for 'quality assurance' purposes. The fact that we are guessing tells us it's probably an easy area to exploit now or in the future.

user3939382 4y ago

> maintain a ring-buffer that listens for its "wake word" and then immediately discards any audio that doesn't match Thousands of Amazon Workers Listen to Alexa Users' Conversations https://time.com/5568815/amazon-workers-listen-to-alexa/ https://time.com/5568815/amazon-workers-listen-to-alexa/

aardvarkr 4y ago
That article is literally talking about amazon workers listening to queries asked to Alexa. Are you mad that they have a feedback loop that lets them improve? They’re not spying on you talking about your mundane life. No profit in that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- user3939382 4y ago
  I'm not mad because I wouldn't use Alexa if my life depended on it.

Aeolun 4y ago

I’m fairly certain some Amazon engineer working on Alexa posted a message here saying they didn’t send anything unless the wake word was spoken. Since this is HN, I sort of took them at their word.

corbulo 4y ago
The trick is in what it interprets as its wakeword. I remember looking at the recordings google stores back in 2015-2016. I had never used hey google (at all, ever), but it sure recorded a ton of irrelevant crap at my work and other conversations. Ill probably never use a personal assistant. Too invasive.
- rapnie 4y ago
  These devices are increasingly invading the homes of my friends and family is my problem.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rapnie 4y ago

> I'm not 100% convinced we do live in that world, unfortunately. Yes. I think also in principle we should not trust any advertising or other business deeply entrenched in surveillance capitalism to respect our privacy in any way, shape or form. Valuing privacy and having an Alexa doesn't combine. Having such device is not just creepy, it is foolish.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
I feel differently about this. I think that privacy-conscious people should be comfortable availing themselves of common technologies that are in widespread use. And we should pressure firms to make those technologies safe.