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As a startup CTO that has done 15+ years of this, I believe very strongly that your hiring process relfects deeply on the core software belief system you hold o

As a startup CTO that has done 15+ years of this, I believe very strongly that your hiring process relfects deeply on the core software belief system you hold on. That's why bureaucratic/non-engineering organisation will tend to over-emphasize references and tests, big tech will over-emphasize CS40021 style exercises and whiteboarding "shame on you", and the rest of us, other stuff. My advice for job-seeker: look very deeply why they ask things during the process and you will be able to fairly predict your future there. Make sure it matches you needs and wants. For the process-builder: are you sure those deeply-held beliefs are filtering what you need or is it filtering what you want...?

mgl 4y ago
Absolutely agree, and smaller companies can even afford to fully disclose their core values and non-technical expectations towards the candidates to make sure the process is a win-win for both parties. We update and share these points within the team and with the applicants even before they make the first contact with us: https://stratoflow.com/our-recruitment-and-onboarding-process-for-software-developers/ https://stratoflow.com/our-recruitment-and-onboarding-proces...
- ChaitanyaSai 4y ago
  Nice list. What does "Distanced from themselves and their source code." mean?
  - sophonX 4y ago
    The code has bugs and might cause a new pandemic. So they follow social distancing.
scarface74 4y ago
That’s all nice in theory, but new college grads want to make as much as possible. They don’t do that by “arguing that gravity shouldn’t exist”. They do that by playing by the rules as they exist. That means “grinding leetcode and working for a FAANG” (c) r/cscareerquestions. I am 25+ years in the industry. But if any new college grad asks me for my advice. That’s what I tell them. I definitely wouldn’t tell them to take a chance of working for any non public company hoping their “equity” may be worth something because they heard that early engineers at Uber struck it rich.
- mountainriver 4y ago
  Having worked at a couple big tech companies I’ll say money isn’t everything in life. I’ve been much happier working at well paying startups with a great group of people making half the money.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Would you say the same thing coming straight out of college with $0 in your bank account, student loan debt and no experience? As I said in another reply, I could afford to ignore BigTech recruiters at 45 making about as much as a returning intern makes where I work now. I already had the big house in the burbs, retirement savings, a family and a son graduating from high school. I would never tell a new college grad to ignore the same recruiters I did. I could and can take jobs I enjoy, actively run away from promotions, etc.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      At least in a big part of the world, student loan isn't part of the problem when looking for a job straight out of university.
    - mountainriver 4y ago
      100% if you are in a hole, get out of the hole first
    - YZF 4y ago
      It's cultural and personal. I started my career getting paid less but doing fun stuff. I paid my way through university with no debt. I only started to think about money after having kids. i.e. I couldn't care less about myself, and I didn't need a lot of money either, but I did care about my family. I had a great time, and learnt the most, at smaller places and lower paying jobs. Then I also had a great time at some better paying startups. I probably enjoyed my "big tech" better paying jobs the least. All that said, you're generally so much above the average as a software developer that you can't even imagine what most people are struggling with. YMMV
mountainriver 4y ago
I’ve been seeing and increasing mismatch in the challenges companies present you with and the role they actually want filled. At this point, the cargo cult of Leetcode is often more of a hinderance to startups. Everyone wanted to follow Google thinking it’s the best system without asking themselves if they have the same problems or are in need of those kinds of people.
- auntienomen 4y ago
  What's especially ridiculous about imitating Google's hiring practices is that the value in Google's search/ad business was largely built by people hired there before these interviews become the norm. They hired through social networks, like, hey, you and X who works here had the same PhD advisor.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    There’s nothing ridiculous about it. Second approach is just not scalable in the long run. And you need someone to do grunt work.
    - timv 4y ago
      The ridiculousness isn't that Google has changed their hiring process to reflect their current state, it's that other companies are copying what Google does now with the hope that it will allow them to replicate the success that Google had 20 years ago. If your premise is "We look a lot like Google circa 2015, and I really like what they've done since then, how did they do it?" then it might make sense to replicate their hiring. But if you want to achieve what Google achieved between 1998 (founding) and 2004 (IPO) then asking what they do now (or have done over the last 10 years) isn't particularly relevant.

mgl 4y ago

Absolutely agree, and smaller companies can even afford to fully disclose their core values and non-technical expectations towards the candidates to make sure the process is a win-win for both parties. We update and share these points within the team and with the applicants even before they make the first contact with us: https://stratoflow.com/our-recruitment-and-onboarding-process-for-software-developers/ https://stratoflow.com/our-recruitment-and-onboarding-proces...

ChaitanyaSai 4y ago
Nice list. What does "Distanced from themselves and their source code." mean?
- sophonX 4y ago
  The code has bugs and might cause a new pandemic. So they follow social distancing.

scarface74 4y ago

That’s all nice in theory, but new college grads want to make as much as possible. They don’t do that by “arguing that gravity shouldn’t exist”. They do that by playing by the rules as they exist. That means “grinding leetcode and working for a FAANG” (c) r/cscareerquestions. I am 25+ years in the industry. But if any new college grad asks me for my advice. That’s what I tell them. I definitely wouldn’t tell them to take a chance of working for any non public company hoping their “equity” may be worth something because they heard that early engineers at Uber struck it rich.

mountainriver 4y ago
Having worked at a couple big tech companies I’ll say money isn’t everything in life. I’ve been much happier working at well paying startups with a great group of people making half the money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 4y ago
  Would you say the same thing coming straight out of college with $0 in your bank account, student loan debt and no experience? As I said in another reply, I could afford to ignore BigTech recruiters at 45 making about as much as a returning intern makes where I work now. I already had the big house in the burbs, retirement savings, a family and a son graduating from high school. I would never tell a new college grad to ignore the same recruiters I did. I could and can take jobs I enjoy, actively run away from promotions, etc.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    At least in a big part of the world, student loan isn't part of the problem when looking for a job straight out of university.
  - mountainriver 4y ago
    100% if you are in a hole, get out of the hole first
  - YZF 4y ago
    It's cultural and personal. I started my career getting paid less but doing fun stuff. I paid my way through university with no debt. I only started to think about money after having kids. i.e. I couldn't care less about myself, and I didn't need a lot of money either, but I did care about my family. I had a great time, and learnt the most, at smaller places and lower paying jobs. Then I also had a great time at some better paying startups. I probably enjoyed my "big tech" better paying jobs the least. All that said, you're generally so much above the average as a software developer that you can't even imagine what most people are struggling with. YMMV

mountainriver 4y ago

I’ve been seeing and increasing mismatch in the challenges companies present you with and the role they actually want filled. At this point, the cargo cult of Leetcode is often more of a hinderance to startups. Everyone wanted to follow Google thinking it’s the best system without asking themselves if they have the same problems or are in need of those kinds of people.

auntienomen 4y ago
What's especially ridiculous about imitating Google's hiring practices is that the value in Google's search/ad business was largely built by people hired there before these interviews become the norm. They hired through social networks, like, hey, you and X who works here had the same PhD advisor.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  There’s nothing ridiculous about it. Second approach is just not scalable in the long run. And you need someone to do grunt work.
  - timv 4y ago
    The ridiculousness isn't that Google has changed their hiring process to reflect their current state, it's that other companies are copying what Google does now with the hope that it will allow them to replicate the success that Google had 20 years ago. If your premise is "We look a lot like Google circa 2015, and I really like what they've done since then, how did they do it?" then it might make sense to replicate their hiring. But if you want to achieve what Google achieved between 1998 (founding) and 2004 (IPO) then asking what they do now (or have done over the last 10 years) isn't particularly relevant.