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I've said it before, you must really hate your employer if you're migrating from high level languages to Rust. If you want a sure fire way to make sure hiring

I've said it before, you must really hate your employer if you're migrating from high level languages to Rust. If you want a sure fire way to make sure hiring costs more, development progresses slower, and time that would otherwise spent on delivering business value is instead spent on engineering rigor, move that Java monolith to Rust today. (to be clear, this isn't an indictment of Rust, it's simply the idea of going from established high level languages to any unmanaged language)

shrimp_emoji 4y ago
>and time that would otherwise spent on delivering business value is instead spent on engineering rigor, move that Java monolith to Rust today. Oh no. I would hate more engineering rigor at the cost of business value! Please, anything but that. After all, that's why I majored in business instead of CS.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  This mentality is why the industry is having layoffs. You should have stayed in academia if you didn't want to worry about business value. No field is exempt from the need to balance the two. We could make planes safer by making them cost 100x as much and then no one would be able to afford to fly. The difference between an ok engineer and an exceptional engineer is being able to pull your head out of the weeds and realize no piece of engineering exists in isolation.
sshine 4y ago
I’ve experienced two startups choosing Rust. The main slowdown factor is that everyone is a Rust novice and are not highly productive from day zero. In both cases, prototypes are built with Python to sketch out architecture and not limit the design phase. It feels like bamboo scaffolding being replaced with reinforced concrete once the company has developed the skills and the models. In the case of these two startups, their main domains were cryptography and embedded. You can’t just pick a language like Java, C# or Python. The strategically safe alternative here is C/C++. I’m happy they chose Rust; it was a deciding factor for me when choosing between two embedded jobs.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  This is complete non-sequitur. I plainly state that this is about when you CAN choose other languages. > to be clear, this isn't an indictment of Rust, it's simply the idea of going from established high level languages to any unmanaged language How hard is it to read a whole comment before writing this many words in response?
  - sshine 4y ago
    You seem unnecessarily angry. I choose to not respond to everything, because it's not all constructive. You don't choose Rust because you hate your employer. You don't choose Rust to make development go slower. I'm not sure what the definition of "unmanaged language" is, and how Rust ends up being one. There are reasons to choose Rust when you could have chosen another language as well. For example: I worked for a company built on PHP and TypeScript. They had a stable cashflow, but the performance of the apps was down the drain (poorly made, poor technology), but the money was there. Gradually refactoring the busy parts in a performant language by competent programmers would solve the scaling problem. Choosing a popular and performant language would ensure new hires. A solid choice here would be C# or Java. Rust would be another option: it attracts qualified candidates, and you don't need to experiment much with the software design and architecture. > This is complete non-sequitur. Just because I'm responding to your comment, it does not mean that what I say should logically follow from what you said. I'm adding information.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      You didn't "not respond to everything", you didn't respond to anything. > Just because I'm responding to your comment, it does not mean that what I say should logically follow from what you said. I'm adding information. You didn't even understand the comment, this reply goes and misconstrues a bunch of things it said again People tend to not like it when you put words in their mouths. If you're out of your depth no one is asking you to flounder in an attempt to "add information"
      - 4y ago

shrimp_emoji 4y ago

>and time that would otherwise spent on delivering business value is instead spent on engineering rigor, move that Java monolith to Rust today. Oh no. I would hate more engineering rigor at the cost of business value! Please, anything but that. After all, that's why I majored in business instead of CS.

BoorishBears 4y ago
This mentality is why the industry is having layoffs. You should have stayed in academia if you didn't want to worry about business value. No field is exempt from the need to balance the two. We could make planes safer by making them cost 100x as much and then no one would be able to afford to fly. The difference between an ok engineer and an exceptional engineer is being able to pull your head out of the weeds and realize no piece of engineering exists in isolation.

sshine 4y ago

I’ve experienced two startups choosing Rust. The main slowdown factor is that everyone is a Rust novice and are not highly productive from day zero. In both cases, prototypes are built with Python to sketch out architecture and not limit the design phase. It feels like bamboo scaffolding being replaced with reinforced concrete once the company has developed the skills and the models. In the case of these two startups, their main domains were cryptography and embedded. You can’t just pick a language like Java, C# or Python. The strategically safe alternative here is C/C++. I’m happy they chose Rust; it was a deciding factor for me when choosing between two embedded jobs.

BoorishBears 4y ago
This is complete non-sequitur. I plainly state that this is about when you CAN choose other languages. > to be clear, this isn't an indictment of Rust, it's simply the idea of going from established high level languages to any unmanaged language How hard is it to read a whole comment before writing this many words in response?
- sshine 4y ago
  You seem unnecessarily angry. I choose to not respond to everything, because it's not all constructive. You don't choose Rust because you hate your employer. You don't choose Rust to make development go slower. I'm not sure what the definition of "unmanaged language" is, and how Rust ends up being one. There are reasons to choose Rust when you could have chosen another language as well. For example: I worked for a company built on PHP and TypeScript. They had a stable cashflow, but the performance of the apps was down the drain (poorly made, poor technology), but the money was there. Gradually refactoring the busy parts in a performant language by competent programmers would solve the scaling problem. Choosing a popular and performant language would ensure new hires. A solid choice here would be C# or Java. Rust would be another option: it attracts qualified candidates, and you don't need to experiment much with the software design and architecture. > This is complete non-sequitur. Just because I'm responding to your comment, it does not mean that what I say should logically follow from what you said. I'm adding information.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    You didn't "not respond to everything", you didn't respond to anything. > Just because I'm responding to your comment, it does not mean that what I say should logically follow from what you said. I'm adding information. You didn't even understand the comment, this reply goes and misconstrues a bunch of things it said again People tend to not like it when you put words in their mouths. If you're out of your depth no one is asking you to flounder in an attempt to "add information"
    - 4y ago