5 ms·

you can also move your body to create the angle and then slightly turn to the desired direction

sethammons 4y ago
It is really counter intuitive. Next time you are riding down a hill, dont lean or anything, and slightly push the left handlebar forward. Without leaning, you will turn left.
- askvictor 4y ago
  This is also the basis of an emergency swerve on a motorbike - if you need to turn left suddenly you push the left handlebar hard.
  - Zak 4y ago
    Countersteering is the basis of all steering on a motorbike.
    - ithkuil 4y ago
      What happens if you have a sidecar?
      - NikolaNovak 4y ago
        If it's attached firmly, you are now basically in a 3 wheel car and steer accordingly.
      - Zak 4y ago
        Typical sidecars pivot to allow a motorcycle to lean normally, so it's still countersteering. Rigidly-attached sidecars are used for some kinds of racing; those fundamentally steer like cars, though the "passenger" typically shifts their weight quite a bit to optimize handling.
    - askvictor 4y ago
      And a bicycle, but the point is you don't notice it when you do it (except an emergency swerve)
      - Zak 4y ago
        I think it's a good idea to actively take notice. Doing so made me more precise on every two-wheeled vehicle.
mulmen 4y ago
A motorcycle is too heavy to do this so you you counter-steer to overcome the gyroscopic stability and change the angle of the bike. Essentially you are attempting to destabilize the bike, in a controlled manner. The same physics apply to a bicycle.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  FWIW I think that's only mostly true. I'm told there are some situations where you really do just shove the bike over into a lean. Of course even if that's true, it's very much a case of (as I like to put it) the exception that highlights the common case. :)
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    Swerving around an obstacle in the road you might do this
    - andrewflnr 4y ago
      Not what I had in mind to say the least. That's definitely one of the premier cases where you either countersteer (hard) or crash.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      Not if you want to avoid the obstacle.
  - barrkel 4y ago
    It's possible on a scooter, which has a lower speed, low centre of gravity (so you have more relative leverage) and small wheels (i.e. the amount of spinning mass is less, and closer to the axis of spin). On a big bike with big wheels at high speed, you can only make very gentle adjustments in the lean angle.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    As a motorcycle rider I’m not sure what those situations are. Maybe dirt bikes work that way? My street bike is very light by motorcycle standards and it still weighs 400lb wet. It’s not something you can really push around, even at low speeds. Body positioning is critical but that’s different.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
Yes; on bicycle it is certainly possible to ride and maneuver at speed without touching the handlebar, weight shift only. (Or at least it was possible 25 years ago when I was more nimble :-)
- lisper 4y ago
  There is a trick to this: grasp the seat firmly with your thighs and think about trying to turn the bike by pushing sideways on the seat with the insides of your thighs.

It is really counter intuitive. Next time you are riding down a hill, dont lean or anything, and slightly push the left handlebar forward. Without leaning, you will turn left.

askvictor 4y ago
This is also the basis of an emergency swerve on a motorbike - if you need to turn left suddenly you push the left handlebar hard.
- Zak 4y ago
  Countersteering is the basis of all steering on a motorbike.
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    What happens if you have a sidecar?
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      If it's attached firmly, you are now basically in a 3 wheel car and steer accordingly.
    - Zak 4y ago
      Typical sidecars pivot to allow a motorcycle to lean normally, so it's still countersteering. Rigidly-attached sidecars are used for some kinds of racing; those fundamentally steer like cars, though the "passenger" typically shifts their weight quite a bit to optimize handling.
  - askvictor 4y ago
    And a bicycle, but the point is you don't notice it when you do it (except an emergency swerve)
    - Zak 4y ago
      I think it's a good idea to actively take notice. Doing so made me more precise on every two-wheeled vehicle.

mulmen 4y ago

A motorcycle is too heavy to do this so you you counter-steer to overcome the gyroscopic stability and change the angle of the bike. Essentially you are attempting to destabilize the bike, in a controlled manner. The same physics apply to a bicycle.

andrewflnr 4y ago
FWIW I think that's only mostly true. I'm told there are some situations where you really do just shove the bike over into a lean. Of course even if that's true, it's very much a case of (as I like to put it) the exception that highlights the common case. :)
- engineer_22 4y ago
  Swerving around an obstacle in the road you might do this
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    Not what I had in mind to say the least. That's definitely one of the premier cases where you either countersteer (hard) or crash.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    Not if you want to avoid the obstacle.
- barrkel 4y ago
  It's possible on a scooter, which has a lower speed, low centre of gravity (so you have more relative leverage) and small wheels (i.e. the amount of spinning mass is less, and closer to the axis of spin). On a big bike with big wheels at high speed, you can only make very gentle adjustments in the lean angle.
- mulmen 4y ago
  As a motorcycle rider I’m not sure what those situations are. Maybe dirt bikes work that way? My street bike is very light by motorcycle standards and it still weighs 400lb wet. It’s not something you can really push around, even at low speeds. Body positioning is critical but that’s different.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

Yes; on bicycle it is certainly possible to ride and maneuver at speed without touching the handlebar, weight shift only. (Or at least it was possible 25 years ago when I was more nimble :-)

lisper 4y ago
There is a trick to this: grasp the seat firmly with your thighs and think about trying to turn the bike by pushing sideways on the seat with the insides of your thighs.