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> Standardized test scores are the hardest metric to game Learning disabilities give unlimited time on the tests. That means you can slowly use brute force on

by cma 4y ago

> Standardized test scores are the hardest metric to game Learning disabilities give unlimited time on the tests. That means you can slowly use brute force on the math section to check each alternative one by one instead of needing to be good at other techniques. Harvard had something like 25% of admitted students do this. Does it sound plausible that 25% of Harvard students need unlimited time on the test due to a learning disability and that lower tier schools have lower rates of learning disabilities, or more plausible that Harvard students have more access to sympathic doctors (through family relations, upper/upper midle class organization connections) and savvy admissions advisers? https://www.wsj.com/articles/colleges-bend-the-rules-for-more-students-give-them-extra-help-1527154200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/colleges-bend-the-rules-for-mor... https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/how-some-las-privileged-kids-fake-disability-cheat-system-1195212/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/h...

throwaway1851 4y ago
I actually think this suggests it would be beneficial to just eliminate time limits on standardized tests. There is no inherent need to make time pressure the hard part of the exam. I’ve always thought it reflects a kind of laziness in the test design, and establishes a metric (thinking fast/under pressure) that isn’t really well aligned with the traits that help the most in real academic pursuits.
faeriechangling 4y ago
The system of accommodating learning disabilities is a grift, I had a few while always being a strong tester who tended to finish tests early. The “accommodation” I always got was extra time which was extremely baffling. Extra time in particular was given out like candy for no reason. Harvard students having learning disabilities that warrant extra time on tests is a fucking joke, how delusional must one be to think that those admitted into Harvard are MORE disabled than most students at learning? Why is somebody deemed somebody to have a weakness in learning in one particular area that makes them “learning disabled”? Why aren’t students who just aren’t as smart as other students considered “learning disabled” and given extra time on tests? But if you’re called dyslexic or dysgraphic or have dyscalculia you’re disabled and deserve not just accommodations (Which I wouldn’t be opposed to on balance) but extra time on every test even if on the whole you smoke the other students? They are beyond questioning and any teacher who does is likely to have their heads chopped off for hating and not believing disabled people despite not being an expert in disability. Which pretends these accommodations were given out in the first place due to some rigorous criteria by experts in disability.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- htag 4y ago
  Learning disabilities are a type of neurodevelopmental disorder in which a student that is of otherwise average of above average intelligence struggle with a specific type of material, commonly reading (dyslexia) or basic math (dyscalculia). The most effective treatment is early remediation, in which students in primary education are identified and given extra lessons and exercises on their weakness to help make them more well rounded so they do not struggle later in their education. This is super effective. I can tell your frustrated with accommodations. I think your arguments against accommodations would be a lot stronger if you knew more about them. I think you might have some good points inside, but your frustration and ignorance prevent them from being compelling. I encourage you to do more reading, but let me point out a few mistakes in your post. * You seem to mistakenly associate a learning disability with low intelligence. A person cannot have a learning disability and be below average in intelligence by definition. Struggling to learn how to read while being average or above average in every other subject is different than strugglingly to learn everything. The more a student struggles to learn to read while excelling at everything else, the more likely they are to be diagnosed. This means very intelligent students with a learning disability are more likely to be diagnosed than average students with the same disability. * Extra time on test is an accommodation. * Accommodations are not being handed out like candy for no reason. Anyone can buy candy. Accommodations require a documented disability. * Many standardized test accommodations are very appropriate, such as blind people being offered a braille version of the test, or people with poor motor control having someone else physically fill in scantron bubbles. * A student can be disabled based on low intelligence. It's not called a learning disability, because it's fundamentally a different thing.
  - nradov 4y ago
    That is not how it works in the real world. Affluent parents go doctor shopping to get learning disability diagnoses for their children. This has been going on for decades (I saw it with some of my classmates when I was in school) and the friendly doctors are well known in those circles. I am not claiming that learning disabilities aren't real or that students who legitimately have those conditions don't deserve some accommodations. But the reality is that the current system is totally broken and discriminatory.
acmj 4y ago
Also want to add that getting a formal certificate for learning disabilities is expensive. From what I heard, an ADHD test costs a couple of thousand USD, which could mean a lot to low income families.
onetimeusename 4y ago
I am glad someone pointed this out. I don't know the percentage but a lot of students game their GPA in school too. From pushing professors to give group assignments to using mental health days to claiming to have learning disabilities, these are all tools they have including cheating. Professors don't usually change their homework assignments every time they offer a course and online sites sell the answers. Professors know but they can't risk giving students below an A-. It causes a shit storm.

by cma 4y ago

throwaway1851 4y ago

I actually think this suggests it would be beneficial to just eliminate time limits on standardized tests. There is no inherent need to make time pressure the hard part of the exam. I’ve always thought it reflects a kind of laziness in the test design, and establishes a metric (thinking fast/under pressure) that isn’t really well aligned with the traits that help the most in real academic pursuits.

faeriechangling 4y ago

The system of accommodating learning disabilities is a grift, I had a few while always being a strong tester who tended to finish tests early. The “accommodation” I always got was extra time which was extremely baffling. Extra time in particular was given out like candy for no reason. Harvard students having learning disabilities that warrant extra time on tests is a fucking joke, how delusional must one be to think that those admitted into Harvard are MORE disabled than most students at learning? Why is somebody deemed somebody to have a weakness in learning in one particular area that makes them “learning disabled”? Why aren’t students who just aren’t as smart as other students considered “learning disabled” and given extra time on tests? But if you’re called dyslexic or dysgraphic or have dyscalculia you’re disabled and deserve not just accommodations (Which I wouldn’t be opposed to on balance) but extra time on every test even if on the whole you smoke the other students? They are beyond questioning and any teacher who does is likely to have their heads chopped off for hating and not believing disabled people despite not being an expert in disability. Which pretends these accommodations were given out in the first place due to some rigorous criteria by experts in disability.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
htag 4y ago
Learning disabilities are a type of neurodevelopmental disorder in which a student that is of otherwise average of above average intelligence struggle with a specific type of material, commonly reading (dyslexia) or basic math (dyscalculia). The most effective treatment is early remediation, in which students in primary education are identified and given extra lessons and exercises on their weakness to help make them more well rounded so they do not struggle later in their education. This is super effective. I can tell your frustrated with accommodations. I think your arguments against accommodations would be a lot stronger if you knew more about them. I think you might have some good points inside, but your frustration and ignorance prevent them from being compelling. I encourage you to do more reading, but let me point out a few mistakes in your post. * You seem to mistakenly associate a learning disability with low intelligence. A person cannot have a learning disability and be below average in intelligence by definition. Struggling to learn how to read while being average or above average in every other subject is different than strugglingly to learn everything. The more a student struggles to learn to read while excelling at everything else, the more likely they are to be diagnosed. This means very intelligent students with a learning disability are more likely to be diagnosed than average students with the same disability. * Extra time on test is an accommodation. * Accommodations are not being handed out like candy for no reason. Anyone can buy candy. Accommodations require a documented disability. * Many standardized test accommodations are very appropriate, such as blind people being offered a braille version of the test, or people with poor motor control having someone else physically fill in scantron bubbles. * A student can be disabled based on low intelligence. It's not called a learning disability, because it's fundamentally a different thing.
- nradov 4y ago
  That is not how it works in the real world. Affluent parents go doctor shopping to get learning disability diagnoses for their children. This has been going on for decades (I saw it with some of my classmates when I was in school) and the friendly doctors are well known in those circles. I am not claiming that learning disabilities aren't real or that students who legitimately have those conditions don't deserve some accommodations. But the reality is that the current system is totally broken and discriminatory.

acmj 4y ago

Also want to add that getting a formal certificate for learning disabilities is expensive. From what I heard, an ADHD test costs a couple of thousand USD, which could mean a lot to low income families.

onetimeusename 4y ago

I am glad someone pointed this out. I don't know the percentage but a lot of students game their GPA in school too. From pushing professors to give group assignments to using mental health days to claiming to have learning disabilities, these are all tools they have including cheating. Professors don't usually change their homework assignments every time they offer a course and online sites sell the answers. Professors know but they can't risk giving students below an A-. It causes a shit storm.